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Problem with switching off FGS221


gilbert

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Hope somebody can help me...

I have two wall sockets connected to O1 and O2 of the FGS221 double relay switch. To one socket a (12V) LED strip is connected, including 230V to 12V adapter and a dimmer. S1 and S2 are not connected, I use HC2 (scenes) and a minimote for switching the wall sockets on/off.

When I first installed this, everthing worked correctly. However, after a while it wasn't possible anymore to switch off O1. O2 still worked correctly. I thought it was a defect in the FGS221 and I replaced it with a new one (about a few months ago). With the new double relay switched everthing worked correctly again, but a few days ago the same problem occured. I cannot switch off O1, while O2 works correctly. HC2 shows that O2 is switched off, however the LED strip is not powered off.

Does anybody now what the problem can be?

PS, I installed the other FGS221 on another place and works correctly now.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have the same problem with 2 Fgs 211 connected to LED lights. Works fine until it suddenly falls in on position and there is no way to turn of

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/emoticons/default_icon_neutral.gif" alt=":-|" /> . The module receives orders either manual switch or console, I hear the "clicks" but does not turn off, unplug it from the network returns to normal operation. I´ve made a short between S1 and S2 and so far it seems to work.

At the time I wrote an email to Fibaro and gave me no solution to the problem

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/emoticons/default_icon_sad.gif" alt=":-(" />

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  • Topic Author
  • Thank you for your reactions!

    Because the switch is hard to reach I did not tried yet to make a short circuit between S1 and S2. however, I just tried again to switch on and off the LED strip and now it seems to work correctly

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    /emoticons/default_icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" />

    Let's hope it keeps working correct...

    Gr, Gilbert

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    • 10 months later...

    I have the same problem with 20 Fibaro switches

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    /emoticons/default_sad.png" alt=":(" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> connected to LEDs

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    /emoticons/default_sad.png" alt=":(" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    any solution once for all?

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    next time it stops working just tap the casing with the handle of a screwdriver to see if the relay unsticks... if so you may need to install a snubber to soften the blow when the relay triggers

    i am no electrician but they seem to work for me!

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    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    [ Added: 2014-05-03, 20:36 ]

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    Support from fibaro suggested to use a relay switch to solve the issue. It was due to the inductance load during switching, inductance current is generating electric arc which causes the switch to magnetize, thus stuck at on mode, unable to turn off.

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    LEDs on dimmers pull huge currents when they are connected. This happens at the exact time the relay switches, so you get an arc between the terminals of the relay... This can weld it in the closed (on) position.

    My guess is that fibaro uses a relay which flutters a little when it closes, so it will see several arcs in quick succession before a proper switching occurs. So it is down to the quality of the relay. Mono or bistable relay won't change anything, what you need is a switch designed for LEDs but I'm not sure such relays even exist... LEDs are still quite new in the home automation scene, so there won't be a lot of equipment for them out there. The only switch which will work properly is a triac switch... But that is more expensive than a relay, so the manufacturer won't opt for that solution, also, if you have a dimmer in there as well, the switch will be subject to the same heat issues as the dimmer.

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    Support from fibaro suggested to use a relay switch to solve the issue. It was due to the inductance load during switching, inductance current is generating electric arc which causes the switch to magnetize, thus stuck at on mode, unable to turn off.

    They are right but don't know why. There is no inductance load. Leds do not have coils. And a coil is needed for an inductance load.

    Use a solid state relais (SSR) to switch your leds. These do not have contacts like a normal relais, so there is no arc.

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    • 3 weeks later...

    You can read more about relays getting stuck in this thread: "Switch 2x1,5kW stuck (welded) because of 20W LED driver"

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    In short: the inrush currrent of capacitors in power suplies to e.g. LED is very close to the spec of the relays, if not limited by design of the supply. Use a limiting device, better supply or heavier relay...

    [ Added: 2014-05-25, 11:03 ]

    They are right but don't know why. There is no inductance load. Leds do not have coils. And a coil is needed for an inductance load ....

    Absolutely. The load is capacitive, not inductive. It behaves like a short circuit when switched on at the peak of the sine wave.

    A pump would be an example of an inductive load. They too pose a risk of welding...

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    • 3 weeks later...

    I've had the exact same problem. A MacBook-charger has welded several FGS211s. Now, I use a Nexa relay to turn power to the charger on/off (via http get from HCL to domoticz on a Raspeberry Pi). I was originally thinking I'd use the fibaro relay to operate a contactor, but since the Nexa relay does not seem to mind a MacBook-charger, it should be possible to find a z-wave micromodule (compatible with the Home Center) that does not weld.

    Any experience? The new ones from Qubino seem attractive, but I should probably rather go with something tried and tested. Anyone tried the Aeotec ones with chargers or transformers?

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    • 4 months later...

    I have a FGS211 (3kW capasity for a resistive load) that stuck. The load, a small valve motor, but it operates only a couple of sec every 50 sec. About a year and a half before I experienced any problems. Then it shorted my ventilation system...

    Bottom line, it is not merely a question related to the type of load, but the accumulated switching volume...

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    1152, do I understand correctly that you use same Relay Switch for 1,5 year and it operates once a minute? If so, the outcome is still impressing. Every relay contains some mechanical elements that usually works for 10 000 to 50 000 cycles. You used it much more till it failed, that it surprised me

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    /emoticons/default_wink.png" alt=";)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20">

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    Yes, that is extremely impressive with nearly 800.000 operations without failing. And that with an inductive load.

    That is not a good way to use a relay module. Use it to control a solid state relay instead.

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    Yes, that is extremely impressive with nearly 800.000 operations without failing. And that with an inductive load.

    That is not a good way to use a relay module. Use it to control a solid state relay instead.

    I agree, RGBW-module + SSR would probably be best for that application.

    Hey fibaro, you need a truly generic I/O module

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    /emoticons/default_wink.png" alt=";)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    Well, rather someone needs to write a Plugin for a generic I/O module

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    /emoticons/default_tongue.png" alt=":P" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

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    1152, do I understand correctly that you use same Relay Switch for 1,5 year and it operates once a minute? If so, the outcome is still impressing. Every relay contains some mechanical elements that usually works for 10 000 to 50 000 cycles. You used it much more till it failed, that it surprised me

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    /emoticons/default_wink.png" alt=";)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    I agree, that would have been impressive. I understand how you read what I wrote: “The load, a small valve motor, but it operates only a couple of sec every 50 sec.” But, no. It is not the FGS211 that switches every 50 sec, that is an internal relay in the ventilation system. The FGS merely, (if shut), lets the small 230VAC current flow (IN-O) to the valve motor for a couple of seconds.

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    I see, so if relay only enables operation of a valve, and it has not exceeded number of 50k operations (datasheet value of relay) it can be a hardware failure and you should start warranty procedure. 3kW should easily withstand such load if switching frequency is low.

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    Thanks, switching frequency and volume are low. The only time the FGS211 switches is when I switch on/off operating of the valve eg the heat recovery of the ventilation system. I would guess less than 100 occurences in total during the year and a halft

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