Mechanical problem (knob pops out)

[evanbeem 2]

Hi there,

 

When I screw the heat controller onto a valve that does not need an adapter, the knob pops out of the screw ring. This appears to be by design.

If I screw it on less tightly, calibration fails, due to the greater distance between regulator and pusher. Besides, it will just sit loose.

 

Before I start messing with glue or duckttape, I thought to check in with all the creative minds in this forum. Anyone has any ideas on how to solve this? 

 

(Before this, I used Honeywell Zwave thermostats, but most of them died after 2 years. The advantage of those was that you could fixate them on the regulator with a screw. That is not possible with the Fibaro HC's)

Edited January 22, 2018 by evanbeem

[I.Srodka 4]

Hello @evanbeem!

 

Maybe you didn't align it properly.

 

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Please try again a few times ; )

[evanbeem 2]

Hi,

 

I tried and retried several times. It happens only when no Danfoss adapter is used, so on a standard M30 x 1.5 valve.

It happens because the fins that lock the knob in place are pushed out by the  valve case, because the screw ring can be screwed on too far. Since there is nothing to block the pins bending inward until the knobs poops out, this happens every time you install the FGT-001 on a M30 x 1.5 valve. 

 

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 On most M30 x 1.5 valves there is no stop ring. On the Danfoss valves, you use the stop ring of the additional adapter rings supplied by Fibaro.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by evanbeem

[I.Srodka 4]

Thank you for your feedback @evanbeem!

 

On 3.02.2018 at 8:52 PM, evanbeem said:

On the Danfoss valves, you use the stop ring of the additional adapter rings supplied by Fibaro.

That's why we provide those adapters : )

 

I hope you will stay satisfied by this solution.

[DennisDM 3]

On 7-2-2018 at 12:53 PM, I.Srodka said:

Thank you for your feedback @evanbeem!

 

That's why we provide those adapters : )

 

I hope you will stay satisfied by this solution.

 

So you say that it is not possible to use it on M30 x 1,5. because you don't need to use an adapter?????

Or we will get problems like this?

 

My first knob poped out also.

 

I'm really irritateted of this.

 

Please give some reply and a solution for this!!!

[I.Srodka 4]

Hi guys!

 

Since the Heat Controller has a hexagonal base, and the M30 x 1,5 is a hexagon. It may be the case that you put teeth in an aligned position which is too loose for all use cases.

 

I think that the source of this problem is the fact that you want to position and align the title "FIBARO" in the vertical position. However, the base may be installed differently and unfortunately the title "FIBARO" printed on the front may be off to certain degree.

 

Please try to attach the knob at some different angles.

 

Moreover, the upcoming firmware update for the Heat Controller will also mitigate the issue.

[petergebruers 1,261]

I am sorry to hear you are struggling with this... When I looked closely at the picture in the manual, I noticed my valve is somewhat different (but still M30). Mine only has 2 hexagons instead of three, and I can put the FGT-001 in any position, it does not latch, it can be tightened with the head on at any angle. The largest hexagon rotates freely in the black clamps inside the FGT. I can screw the FGT very tight and the head does not pop out. My mechanical Heimeier head on the other hand does latch onto the hexagon, so you cannot turn it when it is mounted... I think this is what Mr @I.Srodka means when talks about the alignment.

 

Seems like not all M30 valves are adhering to the same standards.

 

Internet photo of a valve that is almost identical to mine:

 

Please login or register to see this image.

/monthly_2018_02/5a8d482c0bd5d_ValveM30x1_5m1.jpg.220bf5389631886b91187bba11ac1af9.jpg" alt="5a8d482c0bd5d_ValveM30x1_5m1.jpg.220bf5389631886b91187bba11ac1af9.jpg" />

 

 

[DennisDM 3]

This is the valve i use. hereby it is also possible to rotate the fgt-001. also because the fins that lock the knob in place are pushed out by the  valve case, because the screw ring can be screwed on too far.

 

 

IMI HEIMEIER / Thermostatische regelelementen en afsluiters / V-exact II

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Edited February 21, 2018 by DennisDM

[petergebruers 1,261]

@DennisDM thank you for sharing that picture. It does not look that different to me, maybe the difference is subtle. I have a theory: maybe the copper outer rim (on which the thread was cut) is less wide on your valve. Maybe there is more room between that rim and the hex nut. Then, theoretically, the white claws (clips, or fingers that latch onto the screw part) might get pushed inwards and so the head can pop out. I tried to remove the head by prying the ring out with a spudger, but it is nearly impossible to do that unless you can put pressure on all clips at the same time and that is not easy. So I am thinking that the only way it can happen is when the insertion force is pushing the chamfered white plastic clips and pushes all of them inwards at the same time.

 

If I'm right and if I could find a way to stop that from happening, it might work. Maybe it works if you do exactly the opposite of what @I.Srodka posted: so instead of aligning the edges of the nut with the white claws... Try to get the points of the hexagon in the middle of the white plastic? Maybe that way the nut blocks the claws? 

 

Does the TRV actually work (I mean: calibrate) if you just screw it on without using a lot of force?

Edited February 22, 2018 by petergebruers

[I.Srodka 4]

48 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

Maybe it works if you do exactly the opposite of what @I.Srodka posted: so instead of aligning the edges of the nut with the white claws... Try to get the points of the hexagon in the middle of the white plastic? Maybe that way the nut blocks the claws? 

That's what I meant.

 

Quote

It may be the case that you put teeth in an aligned position which is too loose for all use cases.

 

And that what you said is, when corners are against the plastic parts it may sit more tightly.

 

Moreover, I was talking also about the FIBARO inscription, to ignore it and not trying to align it, because the base may be rotated differently.

[petergebruers 1,261]

@I.Srodka thanks, we seem to be talking about the same thing. Let's hope this helps other users... BTW I have the charging port pointing upward, because it is easier to click the tiny button. But then again, I can tighten the ring in any position (without noticing any difference) so that does not tell much...

[DennisDM 3]

Does anybody know the inner diameter of the circle in the " pins"?

 

I will order a keyring or something like that that fits between the " pins" to make sure they will be pushed outside towards the screw ring.

see if that does the trick

 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2018 by DennisDM

[petergebruers 1,261]

Interesting idea. Unfortunately I am not at home to measure it. Could work though...

[Macschimmi 35]

Unfortunately I have exactly the same problem with a radiator, if I hand-tighten the thread of the thermostatic head, the head jumps off when calibrating.

If I pull the thermostatic head only loosely, the head remains, but the heating does not go out, but keeps warming.

I have 23 new radiators in the house, everywhere the Heimeier valves on it, it is currently only one of 6 radiators occurred.

I do not change the others until everything goes to my satisfaction.

[NuclearTrousers 0]

What I have found is that the valve calibrates fine with the TRV with the black and thin valve stem. The one fitted, shown on its own just does not calibrate. It also now pops the valve out of the screw sleeve when calibrating... i have found that with the black thin stemmed one the clips sit in a groove holding it in place whereas with the other, silver, brass, fatter valve the FGT not only rotates unless done up super tight but pops the head off as per above!!

 

I believe that Fibaro need to make some sort of additional adapter to support the erronous valve type... either that or I am going to have to replace 6 or 7 of my brand new TRV's

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[gergo7633 0]

I have Danfos RA-N valves. The valve kept popping off with the supplied adapter. The source of the problem is a simple design flow.

 

Weak fingers, the twist ring has too narrow shoulder where the fingers clamp, plus the diameter of the clamping fingers are smaller by at least 1-1.5mm.

The fingers should have flat end perpendicular to the axis of the valve itself. 

 

The designers should have checked a Honeywell Rondostat HR20 or something similar rock-solid "dumb" electronic TVR that has been on the market for 15+ years.

 

 

I've created a simple adapter ring that fits inside the fingers and keeps them clamping to the twist ring. 

 

I've printed it and tried. 

Please login or register to see this image.

 

With the adapter in place, the valve stayed on and haven't popped off, I've calibrated ~10 times to verify. 

 

I'm using 51-55C heating water so I printed it in PLA (that was installed and I was lazy to change).

 

In case of higher temperatures, I'd use ABS or PETG filament.