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Horstmann ASR2-ZW support in HC2


budda

Question

Back in early July you mentioned support for the Horstmann ASR2-ZW was to be included in an update available "in about 2 weeks". Is this still the case?

In summary the Horstmann ASR2-ZW device is on and showing up to HC2 but isn't showing the correct controls to switch the two zones on and off.

Attached is a screenshot of HC2 v1.033 idea of the device.

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  • After installed 2.137 nothing changed and the device still showed the same as in the above screenshot.

    Upgrading to 2.138 today the device lost all its settings, room assignment, and icon. It reset back to a default thermostat. I got excited that maybe the device was finally implemented - like Fibaro said "in a few weeks" earlier in July.

    Alas, it seems nothing has improved yet.

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    /emoticons/default_icon_neutral.gif" alt=":-|" />

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  • Still waiting for this device to be correctly supported after being promised it was coming in "a few weeks"...

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  • September and still no hint of progress with the support which was almost done months ago.

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  • okay, latest news is that this will be supported by the "newAPI" in the next few weeks.

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  • And we're heading for November now and still no API release or update to the HC2, as promised. Empty promises.

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    /emoticons/default_icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" />

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    @Budda

    I'm guessing that even with 1.040, there's been no positive news about support for this. I'm not that familar with this device, but now find myself needing such a device.

    Although I have thermostats in every room to control underfloor heating, it's come to light that the airing cupboard needs heat through the towel radiator. So, some research and the Horstmann device looks ideal for controlling a Honeywell 2-port valve.

    What's the specific deficiency from a Fibaro HC2 point of view? Can you associate the Horstmann relay module (ASR-ZW) to the Thermostat (HRT4-ZW)? Welcome your analysis of what does and doesn't work.

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    I match a relay switch to the thermostat and I manage it through the heating panel

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  • I match a relay switch to the thermostat and I manage it through the heating panel

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    But then you have no manual way of controlling it when stood at the boiler - for somebody who has no phone/ipad/whatever to hand and wants the heating on pronto!

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  • @Budda

    I'm guessing that even with 1.040, there's been no positive news about support for this. I'm not that familar with this device, but now find myself needing such a device.

    Although I have thermostats in every room to control underfloor heating, it's come to light that the airing cupboard needs heat through the towel radiator. So, some research and the Horstmann device looks ideal for controlling a Honeywell 2-port valve.

    What's the specific deficiency from a Fibaro HC2 point of view? Can you associate the Horstmann relay module (ASR-ZW) to the Thermostat (HRT4-ZW)? Welcome your analysis of what does and doesn't work.

    As you can see from the screengrab in the first post - the 2 x relay switches show up as sub devices fine. However the only controls HC2 gives them is to set a temperature (!!?) rather than a simple on/off switch for each relay channel.

    I don't have a thermostat to go with the boiler actuator. I was just sold the ASR2-ZW on its own, and from the description did just what i needed, in theory.

    As mentioned the Fibaro 2x relay module could be an option if you don't need a local hard switch to turn it on / off easily. i've got one knocking about doing nothing yet too.

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    However the only controls HC2 gives them is to set a temperature (!!?) rather than a simple on/off switch for each relay channel

    Ah. So it's got it completely wrong.

    Like you, I'm looking for independent control. I also want it to run autonomously so would look to associate the thermostat with the relay. I still might invest in a pair of devices.

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    An update. Received my Horstmann HRT4-ZW (thermostat) and Horstmann ASR-ZW (single relay) this week, but didn't install until today. Bought from

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    of all places. I resigned myself to the fact that they wouldn't work with the Fibaro, so installed them just to talk to each other. However, the transmission range between the two is very poor. I think I got about 3-4 metres, if that, but they need to work about 10m apart. The thermostat is in the airing cupboard upstairs, to control the towel radiator, and the relay is at the opposite end of the house in the garage next to the 2-port valve it needs to operate.

    So, I thought I'd go for getting them to talk to the Fibaro. First off, I tried the ASR-ZW and was stunned when it showed up in Fibaro with an icon that exactly represented the unit, and, I could switch it on and off remotely. The only anomaly is that the Controlled Device is "Lighting", but then there's nothing else that's more appropriate, apart from "Other Device", but that's a small thing.

    Then, I went for inclusion of the Thermostat, and... that worked as well. Two sources of additional information helped:

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    I'm still trying to get the thermostat to control the relay, using Association, but I'm not having much success and this may in part be due to the fact that the ZWave transmitter is only switched on every 4000 seconds (by default), or when something happens (eg Setpoint changed etc).

    Will keep you posted on progress.

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    I'm struggling with when the Thermostat will accept commands. I've got association working now, so when the airing cupboard temperature drops, it activates the zwave relay in the garage to cause the 2-port valve to open which causes the boiler to switch on. All good.

    One feature of the thermostat is that the setting associated with reporting temperatures back to the ZWave controller (Fibaro HC2) is 'off' by default. Crazy. So, I've had to set Parameter 1 to something greater than 128 (eg, 200). However, back in that loop of "when is the thermostat listening?". Even though I've put it in "Li" (Listening mode) I think it's ignoring me.

    This might also explain, lack of temperature reporting, why HC2 is not reporting a temperature for the airing cupboard.

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  • An update on the Horstmann ASR2-ZW compatibility with the latest beta firmware v3.341 which Fibaro support have claimed should support the hardware now.

    Screen shot below shows that nothing has changed since my original post and the v1 stable HC2 firmware.

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    /emoticons/default_icon_sad.gif" alt=":-(" />

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    This thread reminded me that I have had one of these for a while in a box unused as it did not work stably with my last z-wave controller. I still like the idea of the device though it would be possible to just use some modules (that were not available when I bought this)and rocker switches to achieve on/off switching for manual use and control.

    I am testing everything I have so I did get it out and plugg it in... this is one strange device... it is both a set point and binary switch.

    The set point works when associated with a thermostatic controller like the AS2 RF or possibly the HRT4-ZW group 1 but it does make it a bit strange if you are not associating with a thermostat and just want to use it as a binary on/off switch.

    It supports COMMAND_CLASS_SWITCH_BINARY 0x25 37

    and COMMAND_CLASS_THERMOSTAT_HEATING 0x38 56

    I am sure that makes it a bit of fun to know what to do with it for any non Horstmann controller.

    It does work well when associated with the horstmann AS2-RF thermostat directly but Horstmann admit that the AS2-RF was not designed to work as a secondary controller though I did fiddle it with my last system. It was not stable though and the association was not stable so I took it out of my system.

    Did I get the receiver working on Fibaro Beta?

    Yes and no. If you change the device_type_id to 2 for all of the sub devices you do get ON/OFF buttons that switch the device but it is not working well...something missing still beyond simple fiddling.

    I am going to put it to one side again as I am not sure how useful this device will ever be. For it to work usefully it would have to expose itself as two binary relays and two setpoint devices and the set point devices are possibly only useful when associating to HRT4-ZW if that is possible. I was hoping to use it as one set point for heating and one timed binary for hot water.

    I think I will use HRT4-ZW and HRT4 ASR-ZW for set point and a z-wave relay for hot water with a standard press switch to advance the hot water.

    If I were Fibaro I would not bother supporting the ASR2-ZW. It looks like a device that is good as a standalone boiler control system with the AS2-RF but not part of a bigger network. The more recent HRT4-ZW seems to work a lot better. Putting mine on the ebay pile.

    Robert

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    Guest berga_s

    Hi, I have the same needs and I would like to have the ability to control the thermostat and binary switch to on/off the boiler both by HC2 and also manually.

    As I read the HORSTMANN HRT4-ZW + ASR-ZW should be the right component off course as soon it will be fully supported by Fibaro.

    Someone have tried to work with 1.040 or 1.047 software version?

    @Robomac: what you mean with “The more recent HRT4-ZW seems to work a lot better.”? How is possible to know if is newest or older version?

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    Hi,

    It is the xxx2-ZW that are a matching two channel controller and receiver that are the first z-wave devices released by Horstmann. I have a pair and they have always been a bit odd.

    The worst is that the receiver has a "failsafe mode" that it seems to jump into for no good reason. It requires a restart to get it going again so we returned to a cold house a few times when I used it. This is without HC2 involved so not a HC2 issue. If you search you will find a post elsewhere from a Horstmann rep that this version was not really designed to be a secondary controller. You can get the receiver working but it is troublesome compared to the single channel receivers that come with the HRT4-ZW.

    HRT4-ZW are the later version and are single channel. I have one I bought a while ago and some new ones so I don't think age matters as they all work. They are a fiddle to include with a third party controller but it can be done.

    When you have them associated if you then associate the switch part with the HRT4-ZW it controls the heating independently of HC2 using the z-wave mesh to communicate. It has very poor range on its own so needs to be in a bigger z-wave network unless the switch and controller can be close.

    HC2 receives the temperature from the HRT4-ZW and you can change the set-point from the HC2 to a schedule/manually or the dial on the controller and override with the on/off on the receiver. + the controller prevents short cycling of the heating for you which is a good idea be it electric, a valve or the full boiler.

    Hope that helps.

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    Guest berga_s

    Thanks robmac!

    I’m little bit confused, may be for my poor English understanding…

    If I understood well, the last version of the thermostat and switch is HRT4-ZW + ASR-ZW.

    With this version you are able to connect HRT4-ZW and ASR-ZW and the Thermostat manage the receiver (as is supposed to be) … plus you can include both of them in to HC2.

    From HC2 you are able to control the set point in to HRT4-ZW or directly the on/off of ASR-ZW.

    In that case, you are able to manage set point or on/off by HC2 (schedule/manually) or by dial on the thermostat.

    Is it right?

    What’s happen if you manually off or on by ASR-ZW? HC2 will be notified and show the new state? This new state is also notified at HRT4-ZW (as soon is wakeup)?

    An manually on/off action directly to ASR-ZW (done by HC2 or directly by receiver) will be override at first change state by HC2 schedule or set point of HRT4-ZW?

    UPDATE:

    I take a look on your attach... looks like if everiting is working well! Do you knwo if it's ok also in 1.047 and not only in beta?

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    Hi

    my English also. I may be a native speaker but my fingers thump away

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    So

    1) if you turn the dial on the front of the thermostat, if the temperature is less than the set point, the thermostat will turn on the receiver.

    note: this is not always immediate as the thermostat has a built in short cycle protection so it will not switch the receiver on and off quickly. This is to protect the heating device. This is switchable for Gas, Oil and Electric heating via dip switch.

    2) BUT any change made on the dial to the set point is show immediately in HC2

    3) the temperature is reported regularly to HC2 and is displayed on the device as in image

    4) you can set the set point of the thermostat from HC2 either from the device or a scene or a heating panel The device is notified when it next wakes so there is a delay.

    5) you can switch the receiver on and off from HC2. I don't as I always use set point to control the zone. If I want no heating I set the set point to 4 for frost protection. I use the on off button for testing only.

    6) you can switch the zone on at the wall using the buttons on the receiver. HC2 does see this but sometimes takes a while. Again I don't but it works. I am not sure when the set point programme would take back over from the manual override.

    7) HC2 does see the zones that are on but it is not instant. Sometimes a delay. This could be to do with the short cycle protection? Image below.

    There are other similar devices so if you have not purchased you could ask more generally.

    I do not like the idea of using a standard thermostat and an on/off relay for heating as you would have to programme your own short cycle protection but others do use that method.

    As you can see from the image I do have some relays. Summer mode for the heating and hot water controlled by a schedule.

    Does that help?

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