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Switch 2x1,5kW stuck (welded) because of 20W LED driver


petergebruers

Question

Yesterday, one of my FGS221 Switch 2x1,5kW got stuck in the ON position. I immediately suspected the 20W LED floodlight connected to it. I had used this floodlight on my desk and I noticed at the time... that closing the contact to the supply of this light could give some really nice pyrotechnics. I think the driver does not have an inrush current limiter, or it uses a bad one. It is built and designed in a very big country, and I did not find specifications of this unit.

So, yesterday I had to remove my toggle switches, then gently knock five times on the Fibaro module behind it and it got unstuck... The switch seems to be OK, I left it in service.

But now... for a solution. The first thing I had in mind was a 10 - 60 ohms NTC in series of this driver. But I didn't have any at hand. So I thought... 20W is not a big deal... Why not put a 15 ohm resistor 1/2 Watt in series? Then I tried the floodlight on my desk: when closing the circuit the arcing was a lot less. I own 4 of these and I have now modified them all.

Please feel free to share you opinion on this!

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We are going to install a few relays on LED strip and i am plannig to use some 220vac relays (one per line) and i hope it works, because the strips are going to be used very, very frequently...

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We are going to install a few relays on LED strip and i am plannig to use some 220vac relays (one per line) and i hope it works, because the strips are going to be used very, very frequently...

 

Be careful if the driver is those made in China ones.

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/emoticons/default_wink.png" alt=";)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

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You mean the transformer? Not sure

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> 

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You mean the transformer? Not sure

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

 

Ya, proper name is transformer, localised lingo from reseller is 'driver'. Hahaha...

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I was thinking last night about this additional relay that we are going to use, and at the end it is a relay, as the one used in Fibaro's modules, so i am not quite sure that it will last forever and not gonna "weld" as the Fibaro's one...... But one thing is for sure, the additional relay is just 4 euro and it is much cheaper for replacement compared to the Fibaro's one which is like 60 euro

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> So yeah, it will be better

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Any other suggestions? The Led strip is in a bathroom so it will be used daily so.....

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I was thinking last night about this additional relay that we are going to use, and at the end it is a relay, as the one used in Fibaro's modules, so i am not quite sure that it will last forever and not gonna "weld" as the Fibaro's one...... But one thing is for sure, the additional relay is just 4 euro and it is much cheaper for replacement compared to the Fibaro's one which is like 60 euro

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> So yeah, it will be better

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Any other suggestions? The Led strip is in a bathroom so it will be used daily so.....

 

Well, if it is of any confidence-boosting, I have a 1x3kW Fibaro relay for a 6+m LED strip powered by a 30W transformer/power adapter running for >1.5 years now. So far so good.

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So you are saying that single relays are better then double relays when it comes to powering LED strips? In that case, since the new single relays are 2.5kw (i think they are the same with the old 3kw relays but who knows...) to install single relays without additional relay or double relays with additional relay? What do you suggest?

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So you are saying that single relays are better then double relays when it comes to powering LED strips? In that case, since the new single relays are 2.5kw (i think they are the same with the old 3kw relays but who knows...) to install single relays without additional relay or double relays with additional relay? What do you suggest?

 

I used single for that piece cause of its length and transformer. If I recall correctly, the load and in-rush current of LED strip is dependent on length of it too.

 

I think there must be valid reasons why reputable manufacturers like Philips does not support longer than 5m LED strip per transformer/power adapter.

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So let me get it straight, if the led strip is 5 meters or less the single or double relay will be OK (or at least will last longer then 1 year

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/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> , and if it is above the inrush current is too high and it will weld very soon. It makes sense to me

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/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> But the customer that wants an advice has those double relays welded for about an year and i am not sure what the lenght of the strips is, but even if we install another relay in between that is not 100% going to help, because this additional relay can end up welded as well

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> but like i said, the costs of the repair will be much less because of the price of the additional relay.... That is why i hate LED lights, especially when it comes to dimm them

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I hate to say this... Dependent on manufacturer too.

 

The 6m one I had is those non-trustable-QC China-made brand-less ones hence I did not want to risk any long term danger, so I used a single relay.

 

For those Philips ones I have, some are on 2x1.5kW Fibaro relay and so far so good for >1.5 years.

 

Yes, I can feel your frustration with LED strips, esp. dimmable ones. I learnt to appreciate reputable manufacturers like Philips or a japan brand (cannot remember the name) or some Korea ones. Never China ones as I have seen and hear too many issues with those.

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So overall it is a matter of testing and learning from the mistakes..... And i hate that

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/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Do you think additional relay (even if i use it with a single or double fibaro relay) will change something? Any tests performed so far?

 

And is this problem occuring only with LED lights/strips or with other lights like fluorescent lights?

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So overall it is a matter of testing and learning from the mistakes..... And i hate that

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> Do you think additional relay (even if i use it with a single or double fibaro relay) will change something? Any tests performed so far?

 

And is this problem occuring only with LED lights/strips or with other lights like fluorescent lights?

 

It is a matter of manufacturers being trustable and being transparent to have comprehensive technical specifications stated in datasheets. Philips ones are like that and I can to certain level trust their products close to what they specified. The specifications allow more computation to reduce risk and unknown, hence a more educated design rather than trial-n-error.

 

I am not a certified electrician. If I am in your shoe, I will try and have an electrician to figure out root cause of the phantom voltage and remediate it. Who knows how wide spread is the phantom voltage issue. You may end up fix one spot, in few weeks time, another spot gets hit.

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Since I use these

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 I do not have had a welded relay anymore.

I ordered another 5 of these to get all of the critical switches protected.

 

MIB

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hello Every One,

 

I have 30w LED from V Max brand, and actually the lights keep switching On some times. I installed 1x2.5kw for just 6 LED with 30 w which become in totall 180w , but still thith happens some time.

 

So please what are the Idle updated solution so far.

 

Thanks a lot

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On 2016-1-26 at 5:05 PM, chaicka said:

我讨厌说这个...依赖于制造商。

 

我所拥有的600万是不可信任的QC中国制造的品牌,所以我不想冒任何长期的危险,所以我用了一个继电器。

 

对于那些我所拥有的飞利浦,有些是2x1.5kW的Fibaro继电器,到目前为止已经很好了> 1.5年。

 

是的,我可以感觉到你对LED条的沮丧,尤其是。可调光的。我学会了欣赏飞利浦等知名制造商或日本品牌(不记得名称)或韩国的品牌。我看不到中国人,听不到太多的问题。

I am a Chinese, you really tell the truth

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8 hours ago, fibarojiang said:

I am a Chinese, you really tell the truth

 

Hahahaha...The translated quite distorted some of the meanings, especially the last part. ;)

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just a quick note. 

i have 6 x 7w LED connected to a dual relay so rated at 1.5kw

occasionally i found the contacts got stuck.

i have added an additional relay which can handle 2.5kw (the cheaper non z-wave version) and that has solved my issue.

so like above work out the max in rush and spec up accordingley.

ive done this way as 1 x zwave relay plus 2 non zwave relay are a lot cheaper than 2 zwave relays.

also means the zwave is 'safe' from any future issues.........

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  • Inquirer
  • 19 hours ago, morpheus75 said:

    just a quick note. 

    i have 6 x 7w LED connected to a dual relay so rated at 1.5kw

    occasionally i found the contacts got stuck.

    i have added an additional relay which can handle 2.5kw (the cheaper non z-wave version) and that has solved my issue.

    so like above work out the max in rush and spec up accordingley.

    ive done this way as 1 x zwave relay plus 2 non zwave relay are a lot cheaper than 2 zwave relays.

    also means the zwave is 'safe' from any future issues.........

    Thanks for your information!

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