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Fibaro Dimmer 2 and light goes off after less than 1 asecond


Alex

Question

I have one problem:
I tried to install the new dimmer 2.

Everything worked fine so far (inclusion, automatic detection).

I have two momentary switches. If I use one of them controlling light works fine.

I am having two light in a row (two lamps at different positions).

 

The dimmer 2 module is connected to L, N. The output of switch 1 is connected to S1 (the other switch is connected to the first switch via

Light 1 is connected to O, than to the second light and back to neutral.

(So phase is connected to L of the module and input to the switches, neutral lead to N and end of second light, output of switch is connected to S1 and this "O" from the module is connected to the first light)

 

 

Now the problem:

If I switch on the lights via app or web page it goes on to the dimming value I want.  but only for very short time (less than a second).

So it switches off directly.

If I repeat this it happens again. But after the third or fourth time the light stays on.

After switching it off again and waiting for a minute (I have not measured this) I can reproduce this behaviour.

 

 

What have I done wrong?

Any more details needed?

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Ok, can You change parameter 29 to 1 and change the button wiring to S2 and Sx?

 

This parameter changes the role of S2 input to work like S1 input. Please tell us the result of this operation.

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  • I tried to make a diagram.

    Is this one ok?

    (Is there any recommended tool to do this better?)

    I hope the diagram is correct so far (it is hard to analyse the cables that are already put behind walls).

     

     

    Is the load on S1 right if the light is shining? I have no idea what Sx is doing exactly.

    In my opinion there should be no load, or am I wrong at this?

     

     

    I will try changing S1 and S2 (and also the on parameter) this evening.

    Also I am trying to use an extra momentary switch only.

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

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    I tried to make a diagram.

    Is this one ok?

    (Is there any recommended tool to do this better?)

    I hope the diagram is correct so far (it is hard to analyse the cables that are already put behind walls).

     

     

    Is the load on S1 right if the light is shining? I have no idea what Sx is doing exactly.

    In my opinion there should be no load, or am I wrong at this?

     

     

    I will try changing S1 and S2 (and also the on parameter) this evening.

    Also I am trying to use an extra momentary switch only.

    I have no better tool, I use pen and paper

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" />

    I understand, it's difficult to analyze existing wiring. Sometimes you can't trust colors and so on...

    I assume the push buttons are "normally" open (they appear "normally closed" to me on your diagram).

    I think the schematic diagram is correct.

    You ask "Is the load on S1 right if the light is shining?" and you asked that somewhat more extensively a few post back. I admit I have not understood this. Would you mind saying that again in German?

    The S1 and S2 inputs are rather special. They use some circuitry connected to the microprocessor of the module. It can detect a very low current in a reliable way, while operating in proximity to 230 V mains. The current from S1 has to flow back to the module somehow, and that's what Sx is for. If S1 is floating, there is no current and the modules detects the switch as "open". If you connect S1 to Sx, a small measurement current wil flow (micro Amperes) and the module sees a "closed". I'm pretty sure you can't use a digital multimeter to check all this. You can do that with a "Universal Binary Sensor" but not with this dimmer. And if you'd use an analog multimeter or a voltage tester, put across S1 and Sx, the module would see that as a "button press" due to their lower internal resistance!

    Does this explanation help in any way?

    To summarize. When no button is pushed, S1 should be "floating". When you push a button, it shorts S1 to Sx and the microprocessor sees it.

    I hope the planned tests tell us more...

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    I have no better tool, I use pen and paper

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" />

    I understand, it's difficult to analyze existing wiring. Sometimes you can't trust colors and so on...

    I assume the push buttons are "normally" open (they appear "normally closed" to me on your diagram).

    I think the schematic diagram is correct.

    You ask "Is the load on S1 right if the light is shining?" and you asked that somewhat more extensively a few post back. I admit I have not understood this. Would you mind saying that again in German?

    The S1 and S2 inputs are rather special. They use some circuitry connected to the microprocessor of the module. It can detect a very low current in a reliable way, while operating in proximity to 230 V mains. The current from S1 has to flow back to the module somehow, and that's what Sx is for. If S1 is floating, there is no current and the modules detects the switch as "open". If you connect S1 to Sx, a small measurement current wil flow (micro Amperes) and the module sees a "closed". I'm pretty sure you can't use a digital multimeter to check all this. You can do that with a "Universal Binary Sensor" but not with this dimmer. And if you'd use an analog multimeter or a voltage tester, put across S1 and Sx, the module would see that as a "button press" due to their lower internal resistance!

    Does this explanation help in any way?

    To summarize. When no button is pushed, S1 should be "floating". When you push a button, it shorts S1 to Sx and the microprocessor sees it.

    I hope the planned tests tell us more...

     

    The electrical diagram seems ok. For simple diagrams there is a freeware tool called DIA. Don't remember precisely but there should be electrical diagrams too.

     

    I agree with Peter, don't connect ANYTHING else than Wall switches to the inputs S1 or S2 of the Dimmer. Multimeter could change the state of light if it is connected to this inputs (the same with Wall switch with neon lights).

     

    Waiting for the parameter change test results.

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  • I assume the push buttons are "normally" open (they appear "normally closed" to me on your diagram).

     

    Yes the push buttons are normally open (I am sorry if I accidentally have chosen the wrong icon. I wanted to use NO.

     

     

    To summarize. When no button is pushed, S1 should be "floating". When you push a button, it shorts S1 to Sx and the microprocessor sees it.

    That what I thought so.

    But last time I have seen a current/voltage/load on S1 (S1 and Sx connected to dimmer) while the LEDs are shining, not only during pressing of one of the switches.

     

     

    You ask "Is the load on S1 right if the light is shining?" and you asked that somewhat more extensively a few post back. I admit I have not understood this. Would you mind saying that again in German?

    Was ich damit sagen wollte: Wenn ich den Dimmer per Weboberfläche einschalte kann ich allein schon mit einem einfachen Spannungsprüfer (Schraubendreher) eine an S1 anliegende Spannung erkennen während die LEDs leuchten. Falls ich S1 nicht an den Dimmer anschließe, gibt es nur während dem Tastendruck eine für mich messbare Spannung.

    What I tried to say: If I switch on the dimmer via web I can measure a current at S1 while the LEDs are shining. If I disconnect S1 from the dimmer, I can measure a current only while I am pressing the momentary switch.

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  • I agree with Peter, don't connect ANYTHING else than Wall switches to the inputs S1 or S2 of the Dimmer. Multimeter could change the state of light if it is connected to this inputs (the same with Wall switch with neon lights).

    I did not use a multimeter up to now, just this simple screw driver. But only for measurements. The effects are happening without any measurements too of course.

     

     

    I am also excited about the result of the tests. Cannot wait getting home.

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    (...) Was ich damit sagen wollte: Wenn ich den Dimmer per Weboberfläche einschalte kann ich allein schon mit einem einfachen Spannungsprüfer (Schraubendreher) eine an S1 anliegende Spannung erkennen während die LEDs leuchten. Falls ich S1 nicht an den Dimmer anschließe, gibt es nur während dem Tastendruck eine für mich messbare Spannung.

    What I tried to say: If I switch on the dimmer via web I can measure a current at S1 while the LEDs are shining. If I disconnect S1 from the dimmer, I can measure a current only while I am pressing the momentary switch.

    Now I understand

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" />

    1) In German you say "eine an S1 anliegende Spannung" so one side of your tester goes to S1. But does the other side go to Sx?

    2) If the screwdriver has a neon bulb, or if it has different LEDs for different voltages, then this type of device *should not* light up, when measuring S1 to Sx. Not when the light is off, and not when the light is on. If it does, it means that the cable going to S1 is connected to something else besides the switches.

    3) If you use a "screwdriver" detector to test the voltage (not "current"... I think that's a translation error because you say "Spannung", that's correct) between S1 and Sx (or a the contacts of a push button), that will be like pushing the button. The passing current is so low that your detector doesn't show it, but the dimmer detects it.

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  • Using S2 instead of S1 (and changing parameter 29) did not help

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  • Using one new momentary switch only has the same effect.

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  • I will do some more checks tomorrow morning with measurements.

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  • It is strange.

    It is working better with the single switch.

    If I connect the other three it is somehow working too, but not at the first two switches.

    I mean if I switch on the light from the web page it does not work the first two times. Since the third time it is working fine.

    But when I wait for a minute I have the same effect again. (This is similar to one of my first posts).

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  • It must have something to do with the existing switches. I have to figure this out first.

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    1. Test 1: The parameter 29 excluded a faulty input S1 problem. It is almost impossible that both S1 and S2 have some input issues.

    2. Next step i would like to exclude controller issue.

    - Disable all alarm reactions (parameters 40-43) & click save button

    - Choose endpint 0 from device view and go to advanced tab

    Please login or register to see this link.

    - choose remote protection and save again the tab - this will exclude reaction from the whole Z-wave network

    Please login or register to see this link.

    - Switch off the controller and then make some tests

     

    To enable control just make opposite steps to those written here

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

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  • What I have just figgured out is that the momentary switch from Gira (without neon bulb) has a little voltage on its output. If I press the switch it has some more.

    The test switch I have bought (Busch Jäger) yesterday does NOT have this little voltage in case switch is not pressed.

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    Well, Gira company is a producer of home automation technology too.

    They have momentary switches that work as an normal On/Off switch sustained with integrated relay.

     

    You don't mention here the model, but this could be the cause

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    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    Try using simple push switch like used for doorbells / other compatible momentary mechanical switch and disconnect Gira switches.

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  • I will check the exact model this evening.

    This part has on the backside three conenctions (if I remebmer right this was N, L and an arrow, L and the arrow are connected).

     

    Does Gira has other momentary switches that I can use?

    Because Gira is used everywhere else in the house and a mixture is no option for me. Also the three momentary switch are in a row with some other switches and/or wall sockets so I have to use at least the Gira design and I need compatible inserts (is this the right word???)

     

    I wish I would not have chosen Gira....

     

    Another way:

    If there is a little voltage all the time on S1, can I somehow adjust the Fibaro dimmer to handle this right?

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    That's good news! If you find the time, could you please find out more about that switch? I'm intrigued by the fact that it doesn't have a "potential free output" = relay output like mechanical switches do. Maybe dis is a switch meant to interface to other low voltage components?

     

    Maybe you can add a relay to that switch. The contacts of a relay can connect to S1 & Sx (they are "potential free"). But I really need to have a look at the technical documentation.

     

    I'm pretty certain that mr "noname" will confirm that the dimmer has no adjustments for this situation... But he's from Fibaro and I'm not.

     

    Still one nagging question: did this setup work with dimmer 1?

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  • Still one nagging question: did this setup work with dimmer 1?

     

    Yes, it worked before. That was wondering me all the time. At the bigging I just thought: Remove old dimmer, put new dimmer into same place and connect it identically...

    Life could be easy....

    Maybe the old dimmer did not take care about the low voltage (I will measure the amount, had no time this morning) or it was because I used the bypass 1 with the old dimmer before?

     

     

    Maybe you can add a relay to that switch. The contacts of a relay can connect to S1 & Sx (they are "potential free").

    I have to check If I have a relay at home. Otherwise I will buy one tomorrow.

    But I am not sure if I have plenty enough space for another relay (there are already seven 60mm deep in-wall boxes filled with cable and fibaro relais and so on).

     

     

    That's good news! If you find the time, could you please find out more about that switch? I'm intrigued by the fact that it doesn't have a "potential free output" = relay output like mechanical switches do. Maybe dis is a switch meant to interface to other low voltage components? But I really need to have a look at the technical documentation.

    I will post this information this evening.

    It must be one of these:

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    What I have seen so far is that you can buy an additional light for these switches (at least for some of them). I am guessing that this might be the reason for the low voltage.

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  • I just called my electrician and he means the the switch might be dirty and I should clean it.

    He says that the Gira switch should be floating. On Monday he will come over and give me three new switches.

     

    This evening I will try cleaning it and measure the ohmic resistant (right word?).

     

     

     

    I will also check what Fibaro suggested.

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