Fibaro Dimmer 2 and light goes off after less than 1 asecond

[Alex 31]

I have one problem:
I tried to install the new dimmer 2.

Everything worked fine so far (inclusion, automatic detection).

I have two momentary switches. If I use one of them controlling light works fine.

I am having two light in a row (two lamps at different positions).

 

The dimmer 2 module is connected to L, N. The output of switch 1 is connected to S1 (the other switch is connected to the first switch via

Light 1 is connected to O, than to the second light and back to neutral.

(So phase is connected to L of the module and input to the switches, neutral lead to N and end of second light, output of switch is connected to S1 and this "O" from the module is connected to the first light)

 

 

Now the problem:

If I switch on the lights via app or web page it goes on to the dimming value I want.  but only for very short time (less than a second).

So it switches off directly.

If I repeat this it happens again. But after the third or fourth time the light stays on.

After switching it off again and waiting for a minute (I have not measured this) I can reproduce this behaviour.

 

 

What have I done wrong?

Any more details needed?

[Alex 31]

No I cannot use the fifth cable.

This is the one that goes to the lamp.

So we have: L, N, Ground, O and S1. Nothing for Sx

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I have to think about if I can change something.

[Alex 31]

I have to test it more intensively.

But right now I have connected the second+third switch to S2 and activated sceneActivation.

A Blockscene is toggling the lights now on S2.

 

But I have to wait for this evening to check if there are any side effects.

[Alex 31]

Did not work. Since I connect the other switches to S2 I get problems (Light changing intensity, going of after a second and so on).

So I have tu unplug the two switches until I get the relay.

[sjauquet 15]

Count 5 users with this problem...

 

I also have the exact same problem with 3 fgd 212

As they replaced perfectly working fgd 211 I do not think it's a wiring problem...

 

by the push button, they light up almost instantly

trough the web or phone, first try they turn on then off in less than 1 second ... OR they do not turn on at all

after 2 or more try they turn on

next web or phone actions are executed without any problem.

I use this wiring:

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Another problem:

 

One or two time per evening, some dimmers start blinking the lights, from 2 to 10 seconds, then goes back to normal.

 

I use quality led lights (philips master led)

[noname 0]

They blink all in the same time?

[sjauquet 15]

no, I have 4 fgd 212, in an evening, they start blinking once or twice, each at different times.

[j.nowacki 5]

Only way to determine what was direct cause of Dimmer turning off is remote session with our support - so we can see if the power off was due to high current or overload, which will be probably result of inappropriate load type or connection, or something else, like hardware failure. I talked with our support agents and they will be waiting for your tickets, all information about these cases will also be redirected to engineering department for further investigation. Please give our agents a call with a number appropriate to your country:

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[sjauquet 15]

Alex, i'm glad that everything works now. About the flickering bar in HC2 I can't say much, never had same observations before.

Maybe you can describe it more when this occurs.

 

That's the fourth problem I have with my fgd 212 It's not a major one like the 3 others, but I made a video for you

This one is just "fun"

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[sjauquet 15]

So I have found one way it seems to "works"

If I remove the S1 wire from the second switch it magically doesn't turn off the light when I try to turn on from the phone app...

But... I cannot turn on the light from the other door of the room... 

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If I remove S2 it doesn't solve the problem

If I remove SX...  obviously, nothing works.

Looks like with the "tests" in this thread that the fgd 212 does not like push buttons mounted in parallel with long wires (5 meters in my case)...

 

Wait a minute, to be shure, I will disconnect the second switch and wire one with short wires in parallel of the push button close to the FGD

 

Aaaannnn YES ! it works.... So I think this really means that the FGD 212 cannot manage wires of 5 meters between the dimmer and the push button...

 

Wait, let's test with only one switch, the one at 5 meters and disconnect the one close to the dimmer (5 cm)

 

Well, that's the problem... long wires -> capacitive effect ? need a small resistor between sx and s1 and sx and s2 ?

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One last test, with parameter 20 set to toggle switch, the light turns on at each and every try.

[Alex 31]

Only way to determine what was direct cause of Dimmer turning off is remote session with our support - so we can see if the power off was due to high current or overload, which will be probably result of inappropriate load type or connection, or something else, like hardware failure. I talked with our support agents and they will be waiting for your tickets, all information about these cases will also be redirected to engineering department for further investigation. Please give our agents a call with a number appropriate to your country:

Please login or register to see this link.

Who of us should call the support?

[Alex 31]

Aaaannnn YES ! it works.... So I think this really means that the FGD 212 cannot manage wires of 5 meters between the dimmer and the push button...

 

Wait, let's test with only one switch, the one at 5 meters and disconnect the one close to the dimmer (5 cm)

 

Well, that's the problem... long wires -> capacitive effect ? need a small resistor between sx and s1 and sx and s2 ?

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For me it is the same. The second+third toggle switches have a long distance (about 10m), the first switch is only 30cm away from dimmer 2.

Would it help to connect the old bypass (left over from the first dimmer) between S1 and the switches?

[Alex 31]

Would it help to connect the old bypass (left over from the first dimmer) between S1 and the switches?

Bypass did not help

[Guest spazpeker]

So I have found one way it seems to "works"

If I remove the S1 wire from the second switch it magically doesn't turn off the light when I try to turn on from the phone app...

But... I cannot turn on the light from the other door of the room... 

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_icon_curve.gif" alt=":-/" />

If I remove S2 it doesn't solve the problem

If I remove SX...  obviously, nothing works.

Looks like with the "tests" in this thread that the fgd 212 does not like push buttons mounted in parallel with long wires (5 meters in my case)...

 

Wait a minute, to be shure, I will disconnect the second switch and wire one with short wires in parallel of the push button close to the FGD

 

Aaaannnn YES ! it works.... So I think this really means that the FGD 212 cannot manage wires of 5 meters between the dimmer and the push button...

 

Wait, let's test with only one switch, the one at 5 meters and disconnect the one close to the dimmer (5 cm)

 

Well, that's the problem... long wires -> capacitive effect ? need a small resistor between sx and s1 and sx and s2 ?

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_icon_curve.gif" alt=":-/" />

 

One last test, with parameter 20 set to toggle switch, the light turns on at each and every try.

 

I have four switches furthest one from the module is 10m, they are all using 1.5mm cable and MK grid switches

It works fine for me although i have to turn up the brightness slowly as it does not like my 23x 6w Megaman bulbs

I will be removing it and putting back the original dimmer

 

Maybe some of you guys have around 140w of LED lighting as well and the 250w Dimmer 2 cant handle the surge and switches off

[sjauquet 15]

No, I have different kind of charges.

From 3X 5W master led phillips to 6X5W master led Phillips, to 100-150+w of 220v led strip.

Problems are the same for all.

Changing parameter from instant on to 0.1s to 0.5s doesn't change anything

[petergebruers 1,261]

(...) Well, that's the problem... long wires -> capacitive effect ? need a small resistor between sx and s1 and sx and s2 ?

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No, a resistor between S1 an Sx would make current flow in the same way as if you push the button. Try it with a 1 megohm resistor: you'll see that the FGD-212 detects this as a button push. Alex and I have discussed this previously in this topic. But I like your thinking. You would like to decrease the resistor in the module, that feeds the current to S1. But it's not accessible.

It's quite possible that a capacitive effect exist and causes this and the long cable picks op something or there is too much leakage current. (also discussed in this topic: use a Megger to test for leakage). On my test bench, 10 m cable is no problem. But, of course, that's not real life. Maybe it is a signal on a wire that runs in parallel? I'm thinking aloud here.

If you want to try something... I'd say put a small capacitor 1 nF - 400 V accross S1 and Sx. I can't test it for you, bencause I can't simulate the problem. I'd like to help, but I can't get the same issues. But I have tested with this extra capacitor to measure steady voltage between S1 and Sx (with a voltmeter with an extremely high input impedance, > 100 megaohm).

I suggested to Alex to use a relay near the dimmer, I think he is testing it right now.

Edit: I'll do some more testing today...

[sjauquet 15]

I tested also with long cables, it works, but those cables are not in a real life configuration, near other cables.

In real life, other close cables are inducting a voltage on other wires, also called "phantom voltage" it's the same principe as motors and generators...

This induced current can be measured wit a high impedance multimeter and in my case is 40V (0,000 Amperes)

 

I called them and the support is currently connected on my box

[Alex 31]

I suggested to Alex to use a relay near the dimmer, I think he is testing it right now.

I tried it this morning but id did not work right now (no reaction at all).

I have to test it again this evening. I guess one of the cables was not connected properly.

 

But I won't be able to put everything into the hole.

[sjauquet 15]

if you put a second switch (for testing) in parallel of the first one (but with short wires), it will work (its basicaly the same as a relay)

I made the test

[petergebruers 1,261]

I'm sorry to hear that it doesn't fit.

Regarding the "no reaction" I may have an Idea. I'm referring to schematic diagram a few posts back. See at the top right there is a wire "G" (dashed lines) that connects the switches to "L"? It's dashed because we assumed at the time that this connection existed and that it was a possible cause of current flow through Sx. It is possible that it was never there. Or maybe you disconnected it, which was the right thing to do at that time. Anyway, if "G" goesn't exist, wires "A", "C", "E" (all connected together) are floating. Pushing the buttons would not cause current to flow through the relay coil.

At the bottom right, you'll also find "G" dashed.

I wouldn't connect that wire back, if it ever was there. Instead I'd connect "A", "C", "E" (all connected together) directly to L. I'm 99% sure about this, but it has 1% potential of causing a nasty short circuit. Either because I got it wrong or you connect the wrong wires.

I would use a *very old* trick used by electricians... to avoid trouble. Use a light bulb to make the connection. The light bulb should be 230 V and between 25 and 100 Watt, incandescent type. No LED or CFL. Like this:

(L) --- (-LIGHTBULB-) --- (A)

If everything is OK, the relay will work and the bulb stays dark. If the bulb is bright... something's wrong.

[petergebruers 1,261]

if you put a second switch (for testing) in parallel of the first one (but with short wires), it will work (its basicaly the same as a relay)

I made the test

Thanks for testing that. Are you planning to use a relay, like I suggested to Alex?