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Signal strength


julianfelipepat

Question

Hi people!

 


I need your help as soon as possible because we are installing FIBARO system at Marriot Hotel in Colombia. We have a situation here, as you can see in the attached picture (plane.jpg) we are installing an HCL 868.4 mhz 4.044 version to control 7 heaters with 7 Aeonlabs 2nd edition relays, the thing is the nearest the relay, the best it works so if you check the plane i attached, you will se that the more distant heaters aren't communicating with the controller so i need your help in order to join them up to the controller, down below you will find all the test i did perform:

 

-Including all the relays close to the controller and afterwards try to control the heaters from the controller and i got no answer.

-I have tried to associate the relays with each other in order to increase possibility of communication but it seems this HCL version can't allow me to do association so i don't know what's wrong.

-We have installed the relays in a progresive way, i mean, following an specific order, that with the purpose of creating an stable mesh network and nothing.

 

 

So that's it, please help me, does this version of HCL support any zwave repeater? if so please tell me which would i buy, if not, please tell me what else may i do, thanks in advance!!


 

PS: Please check attached pictures to make an idea how the controllers and relays were installed.

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Im not 100% sure but I don't think the aeonlabs swithes can act as repeaters. Did you try using Fibaros Switches?

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  • Im not 100% sure but I don't think the aeonlabs swithes can act as repeaters. Did you try using Fibaros Switches?

     

    No KristianO all the devices we got are Aeonlabs microswitch 2nd edition... Are you sure aeonlabs can't act as repeaters? Do you believe if i use a fibaro dimmer or switch in the middle it will act as a repeater and may help?

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    I have had a huge antenna installed and free line of sight great... But zwave signals hate walls! Fact! Don't care how big your antenna is!

    The mesh fails to easy and direct communication with gateways always is so much more reliable... Simple

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    In a nutshell... If you want stability add gateways not cheap devices for mesh! HCL is cheap enough!

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  • I have had a huge antenna installed and free line of sight great... But zwave signals hate walls! Fact! Don't care how big your antenna is!

    The mesh fails to easy and direct communication with gateways always is so much more reliable... Simple

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    In a nutshell... If you want stability add gateways not cheap devices for mesh! HCL is cheap enough!

     

    Yeah i think changing the antenna won't solve my problem, i will try moving the gateway to an strategic position and check what happen...Do you know what zwave repeater would be compatible with hcl?

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    In my opinion, without a layout diagram of where things are, what kind of walls (or potential RF interference source), it's hard to assess and recommend.

     

    Dun forget, extender is still an RF device that receiver RF signal and re-broadcast along via RF. Much like WiFi extenders, similar hinderance factors.

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    I agree with chaicka!

     

    Simple fact is you can have a 12" antenna on one side of 2 walls < 10m range and it will not perform much better than the stubby aerial that comes with the Fibaro controllers.

     

    Remove them walls and you reap the benefits! Moving your controller to a better position (less obstructions) will help considerably! But could with a diagram of your property layout as stated above

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

     

    I can give you a rough idea... I (HAD) HC2 unit with an external antenna 6" away from a 1 x 4" breeze block wall plastered with a 5m free flow the other side of the wall then a 11" wall and device was on the wall the other side! (INCLUSION WAS PATCHY - ASKING FOR TROUBLE)

     

    Swapped it to the stubby original antenna (EXACTLY) the same...

     

    Move the antenna to reduce obstacles by 1 wall so now the 4" wall has been taken out of the equation and we have the 5m free flow and a 11" exterior wall and it works PERFECTLY! So my solution was simply to move the controller from one side of the room to the other to reduce the amount of walls the signal needs to penetrate.

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    A simple question, as mentioned a few of the Fibaro devices have a built in functionality that gives you an indication of recieved z-wave signal strength. Is there a way to get an indication of the signal strength as received by the HC as well?  

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  • In my opinion, without a layout diagram of where things are, what kind of walls (or potential RF interference source), it's hard to assess and recommend.

     

    Dun forget, extender is still an RF device that receiver RF signal and re-broadcast along via RF. Much like WiFi extenders, similar hinderance factors.

     

    Thank you chaicka for your kind reply. That´s true but with the difference that we do not have wall here, everything is located in the open air so i think im having signal losses, please check the improvise plane i attached, there you will find that everything is in the open air and you will find the distances and so on.

     

    I agree with chaicka!

     

    Simple fact is you can have a 12" antenna on one side of 2 walls < 10m range and it will not perform much better than the stubby aerial that comes with the Fibaro controllers.

     

    Remove them walls and you reap the benefits! Moving your controller to a better position (less obstructions) will help considerably! But could with a diagram of your property layout as stated above

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

     

    I can give you a rough idea... I (HAD) HC2 unit with an external antenna 6" away from a 1 x 4" breeze block wall plastered with a 5m free flow the other side of the wall then a 11" wall and device was on the wall the other side! (INCLUSION WAS PATCHY - ASKING FOR TROUBLE)

     

    Swapped it to the stubby original antenna (EXACTLY) the same...

     

    Move the antenna to reduce obstacles by 1 wall so now the 4" wall has been taken out of the equation and we have the 5m free flow and a 11" exterior wall and it works PERFECTLY! So my solution was simply to move the controller from one side of the room to the other to reduce the amount of walls the signal needs to penetrate.

     

    Piot thank you for sharing your experience man, i think the best solution could be moving the controller and isolate it from the granite wall because it was wall mounted as you can see in the pics and plane i attached and the antenna is almost touching the wall. I´m gonna try it, if i got good result guys i´ll tell you what i did, thanks!

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    Is it possible to place the controller between tube heater 3 and tube heater 4?

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  • Inquirer
  • Is it possible to place the controller between tube heater 3 and tube heater 4?

     

    Yes, it is possible, actually we are doing this in order to offset the signal strength but i'm still afraid about what will happen once we done it. Do you believe moving the controller in the middle will work?... As soon as i got something, i'll let you know guys.

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    I've replaced antenna with this one from aliexpress and got good result.

    I have two floors and HC2 located on first floor, HC2 seem to send command to switches on 2nd floor instantly.

     

     

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  • I've replaced antenna with this one from aliexpress and got good result.

    I have two floors and HC2 located on first floor, HC2 seem to send command to switches on 2nd floor instantly.

     

     

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    Thank you anu! It seems like a good option, i will take it into account!

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    Shifting the HCL in between 3 & 4 might just work. I have three more pointers to share:

     

    1. RF hates solid/reinforce walls. Space the antenna some distance away from wall. I cannot remember the formula to calculate the distance but generally, if the antenna gain is 6dBi, I try to keep 6 inches space between the antenna and wall if there is no other choice of placement other than close to wall.
    2. HCL should not be place in-line with the heaters, place it either slightly in front so the signal radiates to the furthest heater. If placed in-line, the closer heaters may block off from reaching the heaters at both ends.
    3. Not sure what is the Aeon relays you using. If it has a short wire antenna like those Fibaro or Qubino ones, you may want to try positioning it strategically or even some unconventional methods to improve its ability to receive/transmit signal.
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  •  

    Shifting the HCL in between 3 & 4 might just work. I have three more pointers to share:

     

    1. RF hates solid/reinforce walls. Space the antenna some distance away from wall. I cannot remember the formula to calculate the distance but generally, if the antenna gain is 6dBi, I try to keep 6 inches space between the antenna and wall if there is no other choice of placement other than close to wall.
    2. HCL should not be place in-line with the heaters, place it either slightly in front so the signal radiates to the furthest heater. If placed in-line, the closer heaters may block off from reaching the heaters at both ends.
    3. Not sure what is the Aeon relays you using. If it has a short wire antenna like those Fibaro or Qubino ones, you may want to try positioning it strategically or even some unconventional methods to improve its ability to receive/transmit signal.

     

     

    Thank you chaicka! yes we are going to move the controller away from wall. The aeon relays we are using are the micro switch 2nd generation from aeonlabs, the have a short wire antenna too so let's say we tried that before.

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    Thank you anu! It seems like a good option, i will take it into account!

    Hello Julianfelipepat,

    How did you solve the range problem with the HCL, because I have similar issues. Did you use the extra antenna proposed here?

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