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Relay switch jams !!!!


pooya.zamani1@yahoo.com
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Hello to all

I have a problem with fibaro relays.

I have used the relay switches for some halogens lamps to turn on.

After the first switching, it turns on all and then it jams ! I mean then I can not switch it off manually or by the application.

The relay goes and sticks in ON mode !

please help

thanks

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It is known problem - no easy solution. Possible workarounds:

 

- Use 3 kW switch instead of 2x1.5 kW (dont know which switch you use). 

- Use dimmer 2 instead of switch

- Use more powerful non-Fibaro switch

- Change lamps to less powerful/more expensive

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  • 1 month later...

I'm having the exact same problem. Have installed the 2.5Kw version: 

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Worked absolutely fine on the toggle switch, powered on and off absolutely fine. Soon as I included it into the Zwave Network and my HC2 - it's stuck on. If I toggle the power on and off via the HC2 I can hear the relay click but nothing happens. 

 

Any other ideas? Or can you recommend one, referring to: 'Use more powerful non-fibaro switch'.

 

It's powering 3x LED drivers. 

 

Thanks.

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I agree with Natt in post #2

This might apply to you:

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Thanks Peter. I started reading that post and 'boom' all went straight over my head - I have no clue about electrical stuff other than how to operate a simple switch. 

 

So the gist I got is:

 

  1. Give up
  2. Use something from a German website (

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    )
  3. Try a Fibaro Dimmer 2 
  4. Get technical with relays in between. 

 

I'm torn between 1 and 3 right now. 

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/emoticons/default_icon_neutral.gif" alt=":-|" />

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If you want my opinion... If you know someone to help you with the electrical stuff, number 2 = "Einschaltstrombegrenzer ESB1" would be my first choice. If you have the room to fit this device.

On the other hand... you might first want to try if you can "dislodge" the stuck relay. I mean, there is always a small chance that the problem you have is something else. I understand you may want some help because it involves removing the relay partially, so you can tap it with the back of a screwdriver.

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Thanks Peter. Opinion much appreciated - I have ordered 4 of them from Germany (expansion plans) and will ask the Sparky to come out and fit one. I take it the relay is likely to be fried now? I just took the relay out of the IP box and gave it a gentle 'tap' with the screwdriver... nothing. Still stuck on. 

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Hmm. Tap it about 10 times, each time from a different angle. Tap it a little bit harder than like you would do to crush an egg. I can't think of a different analogy to describe "force" on a forum.

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/emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" />

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BTW you need only one of those NTCs per relay, assuming that total Watt is less than 150. If it's more, it's a little bit different. It will do no harm if you bought one per LED, that's fine too.

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A funny thing about sw that get stuck. And yes, I have experienced the problem, especially on one of my circuits - but no it has gone or at least disappeared for quite some time. So what did I do? Basically hit/tap it as Peter describes. My problem manifested it self after a few months of use. I fixed it by tapping it, problem reappeared for about two to three times. And now it has not reappeared for more than a year. A border case, luck or coincidence - or did the sw cure? I don´t now, but depending on your situation, patience may pay off.

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A funny thing about sw that get stuck. And yes, I have experienced the problem, especially on one of my circuits - but no it has gone or at least disappeared for quite some time. So what did I do? Basically hit/tap it as Peter describes. My problem manifested it self after a few months of use. I fixed it by tapping it, problem reappeared for about two to three times. And now it has not reappeared for more than a year. A border case, luck or coincidence - or did the sw cure? I don´t now, but depending on your situation, patience may pay off.

Thanks for chiming in. I'd go for the "borderline" explanation. But that's speculation!

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/emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" /> To see the effect it had on the relay, you'd have to open it and have a look at the contact surface. What I'm trying to say is this. The relay may not get stuck, but the number of cycles it can do, may have been reduced. By how much? Really can't say (I've checked a few relay data sheets). Is that a problem? Probably not, assuming that you maybe go from 100.000 ballpark to 10.000. If you cycle the relay 3 times per day, that's still 10 years of useful life...

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  • 2 months later...
  • Topic Author
  • I'm having the exact same problem. Have installed the 2.5Kw version: 

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    Worked absolutely fine on the toggle switch, powered on and off absolutely fine. Soon as I included it into the Zwave Network and my HC2 - it's stuck on. If I toggle the power on and off via the HC2 I can hear the relay click but nothing happens. 

     

    Any other ideas? Or can you recommend one, referring to: 'Use more powerful non-fibaro switch'.

     

    It's powering 3x LED drivers. 

     

    Thanks.

    Hello

    I found all problems that talked in this page, as the starter pf it

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    /emoticons/default_biggrin.png" alt=":D" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    1-The fibaro relay 2*1.5 is so sensetive. Actually, the capacity and the quality of 2 relays that are in double switch modules, are very less than fibaro one relay modules.

    Actually, if fibaro 1*3kw relay is 10A, each relays of 2*1.5kw are 4A and they sticks after very small arcs form the switching on or off.

    the first solution is using external and industrial relays such as finder or omron brands. (

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    )

    the second, is using the 220vac capacitor(maybe 1000nf)  that comes to 2 wires of loads.

    2-if the modules works fine with the software and it locks just with mechanical switch before it, the problem comes form switch Small LED (mostly in orange color on the switch))

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    for this, you should break the LED inside the mechanical switch,

    thanks for all replies

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    Hi,


     


    I am having trouble fibaro relay. it does not respond. Even on off switch is not responding. Lights remain on and they are not switching off. It has worked fine for few days only. What should i do . Please give me any possible solution.


     


    The firmware version is 4.054 on HCL ( home centre lite) . Could it be a issue of firmware?


     


    Thankyou.


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    Guest fat

    Pull the light switch off the wall and tap the relay with the back of a screwdriver or something. This will possibly help unstick the relay

    Also what lights are you controlling with the relay?

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    Pull the light switch off the wall and tap the relay with the back of a screwdriver or something. This will possibly help unstick the relay

    Also what lights are you controlling with the relay?

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    I am using 6 led spotlight of 12w and led strip light. Is there an issue with these kind of lights ?

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    I am using 6 led spotlight of 12w and led strip light. Is there an issue with these kind of lights ?

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    Guest fat

    There have been a few reports of issues with Fibaro relays sticking when using LED lights as many of hem have a high inrush current which causes the relays terminals to weld together. To unstick them turn the relay off using the app or web interface and then tap on the casing with something

    I have all LED in my house and want to use relays to control a number of lights but will not put relays in until Fibaro have a relay that has built in high inrush current limiting or will go with another manufacturer. Unfortunately the options for other manufacturers aren't great in Australia

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    There have been a few reports of issues with Fibaro relays sticking when using LED lights as many of hem have a high inrush current which causes the relays terminals to weld together. To unstick them turn the relay off using the app or web interface and then tap on the casing with something

    I have all LED in my house and want to use relays to control a number of lights but will not put relays in until Fibaro have a relay that has built in high inrush current limiting or will go with another manufacturer. Unfortunately the options for other manufacturers aren't great in Australia

    But now a days everyone is using leds in there houses. The product should be made for leds . bulbs are obsolete and not energy effecient as leds are. While i had 6 led spot lights of 12w on that relay and a led strip light. Rated power of the relay is 2.5kw.  I think load is far lower than the rated one.

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    But now a days everyone is using leds in there houses. The product should be made for leds . bulbs are obsolete and not energy effecient as leds are. While i had 6 led spot lights of 12w on that relay and a led strip light. Rated power of the relay is 2.5kw.  I think load is far lower than the rated one.

     

    It's annoying, and saying that nowadays LEDs are common is certainly true. But I'd like to point out a few things:

     

    - It's not easy to make a relay with high inrush capability, that fits in the same size module. There are bigger relays that can switch any "nasty" loads. The nastiest of all loads are AC induction motors (pumps). Those relays need to be even bigger. The size is important because you need bigger contacts, bigger spring, bigger coil to "tear open" the welded contacts. The reason you haven't had any problems with ordinary switches, is that you apply much more force to open and close it that those tiny relays.

     

    - You can look at it in another way too. The power supply designer should include measures to limit the inrush current. An inrush current is, simply put, a very high current for a very short time, that occurs because the load acts as an "almost short circuit". It's not very easy, partly because people also don't want to have their LED lamps cause radio interference. It's a complex issue and I'm not going to claim that I know all the details. But there is a lot of difference from power supply to power supply (or LED driver, as would be the more appropriate term in some cases).

     

    - Rated power and "inrush current" are not the same thing. They are somewhat related, but a relay manufacture will give a separate number on the datasheet. A 20 W LED driver can weld a 1,2 kW relay... Fibaro does not specify both, but subtly remarks in the FGS-222 double relay: "6,5A per channel for resistive load, but total current can not exceed 10A*. Is Fibaro trying to hide the inrush current spec? I really doubt that. You see, it's very difficult to *measure* the current. So that won't help you. Power supply / LED manufacturers sometimes, but certainly not always, mention the current on the datasheet.

     

    The easiest solution is adding a bigger relay after the module, but of course... you need some space to do that.

     

    I started a long topic with more background on this a long time ago. This is a link to that topic:

     

     

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