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[Feature Request] - HC2 Backup modification


SmartStart

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42 minutes ago, tinman said:

Now please be honest, and tell me, if your iPhones display is broken, do you exchange the display by yourself? Do you? ok, but what if NAND memory is broken, do you exchange it as well? And what with Apple asic? The point is, i could do this, i have enough equipment here, but why for? There is perfectly working service which will do this for me. Same for my car, why in the hell i have to change wheels? There are ppl, who have maybe children / family, i can not just take their job and do everything myself. If they do that job, i have still my insurance, i can sleep well.  So why not with Fibaro / Smart home ? Because "i could do" something, hell no, one can spend days to code nice things and let others - who knows how - to do their job.

 

Oh, you got me ;) Few years ago I send my broken phone (not an iPhone) to the manufacturer's service cause the display broke after I dropped it. Well, they sent it back saying there is nothing they can do about it, but offered me to buy another one. So I changed it myself and then did it also with my iPhone and iPad. And you know what? I have to change my wheels on my own, because last time they forgot to inform me that one of my winter-tires was completely broken (I just went elsewhere to buy new tires the very next day). The other time I found a valve stuck in my summer tire. Those two things (displays and tires) I do on my own, because I want to save my time. This might be just my lack of chance for the tires and displays, but I don't want to pay twice for wasting my time (sending phones there and back again, spending two days on changing wheels instead of one hour). And that's all about it - downtime is customer's time. Having to send the HC2 to Germany or Poland or anywhere else is not as reliable as you may think. Packets get lost out there everyday (talking from personal experience).

 

Sorry if I am slightly off-topic, but the important question here is really the time. Then there is the security of course and some other things perhaps, but the time is crucial.

Of course It is fine to let others do their jobs, earn their lives and so on.

 

Reliable backup to file/recovery from file (export/import) saves time so it is good.

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  • @tinman

    Guess we should not try to find many products on which things are equally limited as in HC2 :)

     

    But e.g about Apple.... even there I can make an external backup and set up a new device like my old one in minutes. 

    Of course I do not start to repair the broken display myself, but I have a CHOICE to throw the old one away and get a new one and use the data from the broken one...

    About changing tires... yes I often go to a garage to let them do it. But again I have the CHOICE to either drive to them (30min), wait for them to do it (1h) and drive back (30min) and pay for it or to save 1,5h and do it in 30min myself (not the fastest one on that which is the reason I not work in formula 1 racing teams I guess ....). 

    All I am asking here is to have the CHOICE. 

    Again, I might be able to live for one week without my phone (maybe it would even have positive effects on life .... ;) ) but I not really like to have no smart home for one week (also thinking about family). 

     

    still hope Fibaro enters this thread again. 

     

    keep up the discussion guys. Maybe there  is something I do not know or see. But as long as I not get valid arguments I will keep on pounding this drum :)

     

    regards .... and LUA and so on .....

     

     

     

    Edited by SmartStart
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    On 15. 12. 2016 at 10:08 AM, Alex said:

    I also appreciate a kind of standby unit. I would pay for a second device just laying in my sideboard and wait to get used in case of an emergency...

     

    What I think would be possible is (or am I just dreaming?):

    • Adding this second HC2 as a second controller (so it is in the same z-wave network). 
    • In case of break down of the main (first) HC2 we just have to connect USB stick (or use any other backup solution that does not exist yet) to the second unit., update it to the same version and restore the backup.
    • The new unit will get the node id 1 and everything should work as before in less than half an hour (all device IDs should stay the same so we don't have to reconfigure every internal and external script)..

    Not quite sure post 4.100 but back when 4.100 was the one i've used there was some sort of problem with this idea of sharing common key - once i unpluged (HCL) its devicess just vanished from the networl alltogether. Hence i assumed that is not viable way to have it backed up. Oh there is allso additionall issue in this scenario: if the "head" HC2 breaks than its every subserviant unit for it selve. Allow me to emphesize: i have NOT tried this since 4.100 it might very well be fixed now and i am making an idiot out of myselve here.

     

    I am thinking that all this demmanding to download into your own NAS, USB etc. is precisely what @T.Konopka means when he is mentioning chaoss. Hence i am coming back to a really restrictive but still independent (of the unit its backing up)  system: have it all be in Fibaro's cloud.

     

    This way THEY get to keep a hold on how to distribute it, files are not paired to unit thus you can apply backup to new unit just using your cloud+unit password (possibly additionall code from Fibaro technician if they insist on their participation). Right now that seems to be best combination of achivability and convinience given my assumptions regarding Fibaro's policies.

     

    Maybe the download to your own devicess could be negotiated lated but for now, for simplicity of it (everything is allready there just *abuse* it!) and time it should take to implement anny additionall security measure THIS is by far the most likely to  happen. Now i realise i keep coming back to this particullar solution but i hope that you can see, from this post why i am so partiall to this solution.

     

    I understand you'd prefer physicall coppy but you have to conssider that Fibaro has its own priorities and internall policies and who knows what the hell else. They are the ones whom gets to decide and this is heavily involving system they controll. My view is limited by my lack of insight into how system works, how backups works (internally) but i think that i am offering decent enough compromise for all involved.

    Edited by Kuba13
    i cant type, fixing logic of few sentences, proper capitalisation of one word.
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    Of those who have had problems with their HC2, it is my opinion that most people have had problems with recovery stick.

    Recovery Stick is an external component that would be very easy to replace if it was not equipped with a hardware lock.


    I belong to the category of users who would not have any trouble replacing a defective motherboard HC2,

    and to replace a defective Recovery stick would anyone be able to do, but Fibaro not allow this. Why?

     

    I do not have access to any statistics defective HC2, but I am absolutely convinced that the Recovery Stick is the biggest problem.
    So why not eliminate this problem by allowing users to use standard USB sticks, or even better would be to use any device on the private network.

     

    Very many today have a NAS or other backup device, so let os use them.
    Why do Fibaro protect our lighting scenes better than what we protect our emails and important documents in our computers?

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  • On 22.12.2016 at 10:54 AM, Kuba13 said:

    Not quite sure post 4.100 but back when 4.100 was the one i've used there was some sort of problem with this idea of sharing common key - once i unpluged (HCL) its devicess just vanished from the networl alltogether. Hence i assumed that is not viable way to have it backed up. Oh there is allso additionall issue in this scenario: if the "head" HC2 breaks than its every subserviant unit for it selve. Allow me to emphesize: i have NOT tried this since 4.100 it might very well be fixed now and i am making an idiot out of myselve here.

     

    I am thinking that all this demmanding to download into your own NAS, USB etc. is precisely what @T.Konopka means when he is mentioning chaoss. Hence i am coming back to a really restrictive but still independent (of the unit its backing up)  system: have it all be in Fibaro's cloud.

     

    This way THEY get to keep a hold on how to distribute it, files are not paired to unit thus you can apply backup to new unit just using your cloud+unit password (possibly additionall code from Fibaro technician if they insist on their participation). Right now that seems to be best combination of achivability and convinience given my assumptions regarding Fibaro's policies.

     

    Maybe the download to your own devicess could be negotiated lated but for now, for simplicity of it (everything is allready there just *abuse* it!) and time it should take to implement anny additionall security measure THIS is by far the most likely to  happen. Now i realise i keep coming back to this particullar solution but i hope that you can see, from this post why i am so partiall to this solution.

     

    I understand you'd prefer physicall coppy but you have to conssider that Fibaro has its own priorities and internall policies and who knows what the hell else. They are the ones whom gets to decide and this is heavily involving system they controll. My view is limited by my lack of insight into how system works, how backups works (internally) but i think that i am offering decent enough compromise for all involved.

     

    Hello all (and merry xmas to all of you .... :) ).

     

    what I not get is that argument that a user placing the backup (and so be responsible for it) somewhere else creates chaos.... first of all - even with the actual implementation I (user) am already responsible to do a backup. If I not do it, data is lost. So there is already a responsibility. What is creating chaos if placing this backup in my network, secured by a password. No one can blame the manufacturer if user lose their password. All the others do it as well. What is so special about fibaros backups that this is not possible?

    On top, placing a backup on a hardware device directly connected to the device I like to secure in case of hardware failure is.... well.... an approach which is at least worthy of discussion.

     

    no backup in cloud! Neither fibaros cloud, nor any one else's cloud....

    if we start to place backup in cloud, we start to place other things in cloud as well and then I could make use of all those other 'convenient' systems based on cloud services.....

     

    So far no one was able to put valid arguments against the idea of placing backup data somewhere else. All I read so far was about 'chaos', 'user blame manufacturer if data is lost' etc. 

    but having my device (or recovery stick) broken and send everything to someone and then having no smart home for a while or have to start from scratch with a spare unit.... THAT is chaos in my eyes....

     

    there are plenty of security approaches to secure the backup data as well as the possibility to reinstall the data on a spare device.

    please someone bring some valid arguments for not doing as requested....

     

    peace to all and may LUA... you know :)

     

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    On 25. 12. 2016 at 10:04 AM, SmartStart said:

    no backup in cloud! Neither fibaros cloud, nor any one else's cloud....

    if we start to place backup in cloud, we start to place other things in cloud as well and then I could make use of all those other 'convenient' systems based on cloud services.....

     

    So far no one was able to put valid arguments against the idea of placing backup data somewhere else. All I read so far was about 'chaos', 'user blame manufacturer if data is lost' etc. 

    but having my device (or recovery stick) broken and send everything to someone and then having no smart home for a while or have to start from scratch with a spare unit.... THAT is chaos in my eyes....

     

    there are plenty of security approaches to secure the backup data as well as the possibility to reinstall the data on a spare device.

    please someone bring some valid arguments for not doing as requested....

     

    peace to all and may LUA... you know :)

     

     

     

    What do you have against cloud, what other things? This is mechanism that is currently present within Fib system and is being used for HCL's "backup" (an image rather than backup but i am sure it could be made into proper one.

    My point is that there is allready present mechanism for doing the backup into the cloud, there is a cloud and Fibaro looks like they are unwilling to let people backup under their own means or on their own drives.

     

    What i suggested is fair compromise, see Fibaro looks like they are very touchy about letting users have anny data to themselves so let Fibaro have all the bloody data, secured under home fibaro account. It is as easy as letting the explorer frames tell technicians what is the status of network (another thing that needs to be bloody  implemented!). What you are demmanding is clearly something they are trying to avoid, so for now we should get off the ground just anny bloody backup system we can. Than we can start asking for localised and or personall flashdrive backup or something else even.

     

    I do not know what is their problem but lets be realistic, they make the system and they made it very obvious that they are not letting annyone in - you the user / technician should try and work around that the best way you can. (or in my case try and suggest something that seems like easy implementation while keeping with their policies)

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    Well Fibaro keeps their system as a closed one (even if it's a linux). So they do not want people to mess with it, because end-customer can easily get to the Fibaro without proper training. I see it in CZ, when chonfused customer call to us, and saying Fibaro is a crap. And imagine that user, will make a backup to somewhere, like NAS or Flash drive. He will lose flash drive, NAS burns out or HDD or whole PC will die. Then Cloud technology shows it's charm, because, its in internet and user can easily restore backup from cloud. So i would like to have all in cloud, then somewhere else.

     

    So i think, that model of backup to cloud in case of HCL is a good model and Fibaro could link it to the user. But for that some special key or something else is needed. Maybe mail, that is special to every user.

     

    Bt if they do such request meaning backup to cloud, NAS, Flash drive, .... It can solve one problem (storing backups somewhere else), but it then it rises next feature request and more problems. And it is transfering to another HC unit, which is not easily done. I have only basic knowledge of how Z-Wave network obtains it's unique ID. And if i remember correctly what i was reading, it's generating it's ID, so Fibaro HCs then needs to "generate" same ID of network, that was on broken unit.

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    12 hours ago, jakub.jezek said:

    Well Fibaro keeps their system as a closed one (even if it's a linux). So they do not want people to mess with it, because end-customer can easily get to the Fibaro without proper training. I see it in CZ, when chonfused customer call to us, and saying Fibaro is a crap. And imagine that user, will make a backup to somewhere, like NAS or Flash drive. He will lose flash drive, NAS burns out or HDD or whole PC will die. Then Cloud technology shows it's charm, because, its in internet and user can easily restore backup from cloud. So i would like to have all in cloud, then somewhere else.

     

    So i think, that model of backup to cloud in case of HCL is a good model and Fibaro could link it to the user. But for that some special key or something else is needed. Maybe mail, that is special to every user.

     

    Bt if they do such request meaning backup to cloud, NAS, Flash drive, .... It can solve one problem (storing backups somewhere else), but it then it rises next feature request and more problems. And it is transfering to another HC unit, which is not easily done. I have only basic knowledge of how Z-Wave network obtains it's unique ID. And if i remember correctly what i was reading, it's generating it's ID, so Fibaro HCs then needs to "generate" same ID of network, that was on broken unit.

    Fibaro must stop acting like every user is the same. There are experienced users and rookies, so let the user make the choice, with a clear explanation, what the consequences are of the choice he/she is gonna to make.

     

    I really fed up with the choices Fibaro's is making for me. If I'm doing something wrong, that is my responsibility. But just implement a way to restore it by my own, without the the need to bother Fibaro. I bought the device, so I want to be in charge. To master it, you need to trail and error, fall and arise.

     

    95% of IT-related devices have a proper kind of backup/restore possibility. So don't say it can't easily be done. Fibaro must think in possibilities, not in boundaries. Take an example other rock-solid user-dedicated solutions, like Synology, LinuxMint, etc.

     

    For people, by people. Listen, not dictate. Freedom of choice.

     

    But the most important thing for Fibaro is to get the marketing machine up and running before the

    Please login or register to see this link.

    . Let new customers believe that it's all so easy. When purchased treat them like young spoiled kids and impress that they (Fibaro) know what is the best for you.

     

    Mark my words, a stable release will be released just before the CES and it will be a disaster for the existing users. Hotfix here we come again!

     

    EDIT: Fibaro 'The Button' is nominated for category Smart Home. Should have bin a 'Distress Knob'.

    Edited by Lambik
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    So I need a button when I´m in distress, (e.g. need to restore/recreate a new HC2 from backup)? ;-)

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    Can anyone explain the fastest recovery proces when my hc2 fysical dies ( not the recovery stick)?

     

    Personally I am not concerned having an automatically backup in the cloud, for my iPhone / iPad I used this option and loves it when buying an new iPhone!

     

    Hell I would even pay an amount of money (max 30 euro a year of 75 euro once) for premium support contract for getting my home System back online Within 24 hours with Local Dutch support.

     

    putting the System down for a week would be really very uncomfortable! 

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    On 28. 12. 2016 at 9:59 PM, Lambik said:

    Fibaro must stop acting like every user is the same. There are experienced users and rookies, so let the user make the choice, with a clear explanation, what the consequences are of the choice he/she is gonna to make.

     

    I really fed up with the choices Fibaro's is making for me. If I'm doing something wrong, that is my responsibility. But just implement a way to restore it by my own, without the the need to bother Fibaro. I bought the device, so I want to be in charge. To master it, you need to trail and error, fall and arise.

     

    95% of IT-related devices have a proper kind of backup/restore possibility. So don't say it can't easily be done. Fibaro must think in possibilities, not in boundaries. Take an example other rock-solid user-dedicated solutions, like Synology, LinuxMint, etc.

     

    For people, by people. Listen, not dictate. Freedom of choice.

     

    But the most important thing for Fibaro is to get the marketing machine up and running before the

    Please login or register to see this link.

    . Let new customers believe that it's all so easy. When purchased treat them like young spoiled kids and impress that they (Fibaro) know what is the best for you.

     

    Mark my words, a stable release will be released just before the CES and it will be a disaster for the existing users. Hotfix here we come again!

     

    EDIT: Fibaro 'The Button' is nominated for category Smart Home. Should have bin a 'Distress Knob'.

     

    Ahh herein lies the problem.

    to put it into perspective i will use analogy of operating systems from oh early milenium:

    Fibaro is windows (in the sense that it holds user's hand quite a bit, and dosent let them do things that are too stupid with itselve) - Microsoft has been very suxcesfull on personall computers during those times, inspite of really crap OS (hello Win 2'000, Vista) but between those turds there was windows XP. An Os that seemingly EVERYONE had, it was all because simple comprehenssive dessign. Fibaro is (clumsily) trying to remake that for home automation market, and that is why i am allright with just cloud storage - it is a solution, not perfect one but one that will certainly resolve the problem to point where we are no longer completly dependent on mailing devices to Fibaro and waiting the long time for it to arrive and them to fix it.

     

    Solution you are proposing is clearly something preferable, nobody is disputing that. But there is a reason why Linux based os did not become popular for majority of end users  - it just gives users too manny options to be simple to use. It is EXCELLENT at what it dose, but most people settle for passable if it means that it just simple. Back in those times Linux was slowly gaining appritiation by even a little bit skilled users but mostly hung around servers and people whom were interested in flexibility of OS. It was not untill relatively recently (yes i know that there was version of linux specifically made to compete against windows, graphicall interface and all but that somehow ended up being bought by MS hence not manny people used it) when Linux "dumbed down" to end-user friendly levels with Chrome - and even than its nowhere near as suxcesfull as Windows.

     

    You see i am not against backup on other media but for expediency and convinice Cloud is the first obvious, simple, convinient choice that will at least allow users to have some place to store their backup, other than physicall stick permanently connected to HC2. it is microsoft sounding solution and it would solve this damned nonsencicall recovery. Demmanding too much from Fibaro might prolong this process to such a degree that it could wound up being released in 2'020 or something silly like that.

    Edited by Kuba13
    making slightly more sense
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    Obviously, there is a lot of frustrations out there about missing end user functionality, backup/restore being one.

    A lot of these frustrations have surfaced in this thread, I can understand the most of them, but then I have to think about what Fibaro is trying to provide, I think that they want to provide a box, HC2 and HCL,

    that is a dedicated home automation center that can be set up by the end user, you and me. I think they hope to be able to provide a box that is so well configured with an operation system that is so well

    implemented that we do not have to care about that, so that we can concentrate on setting up our home automation.

    That is a noble goal to set!

    As somebody mentioned, it took Microsoft decades to do that with Windowsd, some of us remember "the blue screen of sudden death" and othe weird stuff.

    Fibaro does listen to us, they do implement features and functionality that we ask for, not everything that we want, but some, I believe that Fibaro tries to stick to there definition of there product.

    If Fibaro would disclose their definition of their HC2/HCL, not the technical but the concept they want to provide, then we will get an idea of what they think they want to provide and we could start

    to challenge that and ask for new functionality in a more qualified way, as for now we are stumbling around in the dark and can't understand why it is so hard to implement an external backup function

    and the ablilty to migrate from one box to another, without having to start all over again.

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    • 3 weeks later...

    As a not frequent user of fibaro (gaining momentum at the moment) the backups do just fine for me at the moment. Had some problems once, did recovery selected an old backup and worked fine. I have no problems with those backups, but the backups should be complete. Things like icons etc, so for me the backup is almost complete.

     

    I don't know all ins and outs, but where are the backups? Are they currently somewhere on hc2 or on the recovery stick itself? Otherwise you could just take that stick and place it in a new device and recover no? Sure using a Cloud is easier and would have my preference (after all if your hc2 burns down for whatever reason and the stick is destroyed) i only backup things from my NAS to the cloud that are important (pictures/video's) anything else i see as not a problem if the house burns down. Always try and keep things in such a way that you can recover quickly/locally and if the whole house burns down, having a backup of hc2 is pointless since you have to reinstall/wait for a new house.

     

     

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    On 16. 1. 2017 at 10:53 AM, riemers said:

    As a not frequent user of fibaro (gaining momentum at the moment) the backups do just fine for me at the moment. Had some problems once, did recovery selected an old backup and worked fine. I have no problems with those backups, but the backups should be complete. Things like icons etc, so for me the backup is almost complete.

     

    I don't know all ins and outs, but where are the backups? Are they currently somewhere on hc2 or on the recovery stick itself? Otherwise you could just take that stick and place it in a new device and recover no? Sure using a Cloud is easier and would have my preference (after all if your hc2 burns down for whatever reason and the stick is destroyed) i only backup things from my NAS to the cloud that are important (pictures/video's) anything else i see as not a problem if the house burns down. Always try and keep things in such a way that you can recover quickly/locally and if the whole house burns down, having a backup of hc2 is pointless since you have to reinstall/wait for a new house.

     

     

     

    Home Center Lite has its backups on Fibaro cloud, HC2 has theirs on USB.

    USB that is in HC2 is paied with the unit, hence anny attempt to use it at anny other device will either ressult in failure to do so or some very clever tinkering with the code.

    Problem with HC2 backup is that you still need to send the whole unit to Fibaro, or potencially one other service. IN THE WHOLE WORLD there are 2 places that do recovery (possibly recover, sometimes backups can be too damaged) that i know about.

    Even the cloud saved HCL's backup are not downlodable into new unit (backups in Fibaro case are images of the system - putting that into new unit would not make it work even if you managed to do that, they lack proper ID).

     

    Big problem is that if your HC2 goes out but rest of the house holds you will have to send the unit to Poland and wait for it to come back OR pair all the devicess to new unit. Not to mention that most people do not just keep spare unit somwhere.

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    Guest aj84

    I will admit to not having read the entire 3 pages but I think what has been said is valid.

    Firstly - leave the choice to us especially if there is a case of 2-3 weeks of being without the system + postage costs + risk of loss or damage during transit and so on.

    These systems are no longer a gadget or a toy but in many cases a requirement and a dependency.  I know of a couple of people who are not very able and they depend on the fibaro system to notify carers or set off alarms should they take a fall and can't get up.

     

    To say it's a security risk is complete BS - especially for those using the HC2 who lets face it, are not going to be your average user.

     

    What I do not understand is why can an image of the usb stick not be taken with the MD5 has intact and then restored on another stick.  Has this been tried?  

     

    I myself am currently now looking at another brain altogether simply because of the lack of backups and also a few niggles I am having that I feel is starting to push me away.  What does keep me with the fibaro realm is overall in my case, it has been very stable and the people here on this forum are very helpful and skilled.  But all of this is useless if the box dies.   

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    From the remarks, you could say the HCL has it already in the cloud. Next logical thing would be the same for HC2. That would fix a lot of issues (disregarding security/other issues for the moment) as long as you can restore it on another box i think it would fit the need of the majority.

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    I wonder whether Fibaro has any future, strategical plans with regards to service.

    Given the growth over the past years, and their big plans the centralized service organization in Poland is no longer sufficient. As stated by several people, especially a HC2/HCL has become key in the house where one is installed. Shipping one to Polad and sitting in the dark (literally mainly ;) ) is not really an option anymore. Fibaro is working hard to make their product more mature. Well, it is inevitable for their after sales to hop on the same train, should they really wish to achieve their goals.

     

    Fibaro could/should investigate on the possibilities to setup a de-centralized service organization. For example: Select a few service partners per region/country which are authorized to perform support/repairs/swaps. Equip these parties with the right knowledge and train their staff with the option to certify themselves. Monitor/manage your partners for quality and performance by KPI's which they need to adhear to in order to keep their authrization. Pay these partners per action based on agreed compensations, so ANY Fibaro end customer can turn to any local partner for in AND out of warranty support; significantly decreasing turnaround times.

     

    In addition such partners can then decide to offer additional services on their own behalf between them and end customers. ie fixed TAT/SLA in the form of small contracts in a 'as a service' form with swap controllers etc..

     

    ..Just my 2 cents as an IT aftersales professional with 10+ years of experience :)

     

    Edited by MaTi
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    3 minutes ago, MaTi said:

    I wonder whether Fibaro has any future, strategical plans with regards to service.

    Given the growth over the past years, and their big plans the centralized service organization in Poland is no longer sufficient. As stated by several people, especially a HC2/HCL has become key in the house where one is installed. Shipping one to Polad and sitting in the dark (literally mainly ;) ) is not really an option anymore. Fibaro is working hard to make their product more mature. Well, it is inevitable for their after sales to hop on the same train, should they really wish to achieve their goals.

     

    Fibaro could/should investigate on the possibilities to setup a de-centralized service organization. For example: Select a few service partners per region/country which are authorized to perform support/repairs/swaps. Equip these parties with the right knowledge and train their staff with the option to certify themselves. Monitor/manage your partners for quality and performance by KPI's which they need to adhear to in order to keep their authrization. Pay these partners per action based on agreed compensations, so ANY Fibaro end customer can turn to any local partner for in AND out of warranty support; significantly decreasing turnaround times.

     

    ..Just my 2 cents as an IT aftersales professional with 10+ years of experience :)

     

     

    Weel i can see Fibaro's future much brighter, even if their controllers do get to a point when noone will want to use them, there is still the matter of massively suxcessfull devicess (come on just look at the wall plug, Flood sensore, PIR and more!) which i am sure will keep the company above red numbers.

     

    I am sorry to read of your unfortunate unit's death and the unique experience from having to send it all the way to Poland (hell we are neighbouring nation yet postage takes few days, cant imagine somone living in, for example, Australia trying that). The pitch you are sharing is just plain common sense, one dose not need to know much about electronics to have that (as evidenced by me posting something simillar previously, most likely diffrent thread). I offcourse agree with this conclusion and i hope that Fibaro listens / reads this because it must be a dealbreaker, especially if there is no proper way to diagnose (outsside of us frequencies) the network or even unit itselve.

     

    Maybe if Fibaro teams up with somone doing automation longer or on grander scale (as much as i hate Apple i would be happy if Fibaro learns how to do proper management, servicing, support of controllers from it).

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    There is a whole 'services world'  out there with companies specialized to do repairs for 3rd parties :-)

    Should anyone from Fibaro be interested in learning more, do feel free to reach out :)

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    Got an e-mail saying that my fibaro-id was a succes etc etc. In that mail it also said the line:

    7. For safety and convenience, we will expand the possibilities of backup cloud storage of your Home Center.

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