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Fibaro Dimmer2 Retrofit into existing 2-Way/Intermediate Switches


eddiem74

Question

Looking for any Fibaro Dimmer2 Retrofit expertise...

 

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So my house has various 2-Way/Intermediate Switching as per the below diagrams. This is common place wiring in Ireland.

 

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/monthly_2016_10/2-Way.jpg.169d408c64578f2258517fd37279e583.jpg" alt="2-Way.jpg" />

Intermediate.jpg


I am trying to retrofit install Dimmer2's however am struggling to find a wiring option that does not result in me losing all switches bar one.

 

I was looking at various wiring diagrams here:

 

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Anyone done this and found a way?

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Hi,

 

Did you ever get this to work? I've got the same setup as your top diagram and am having difficulty working it out.

 

Thanks

Ed.

Edited by Eddybeegy
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Are you able to change the wiring and also the switches?

If so, you could use 2 or 3 (or hundreds of) pulse switches and connect them parallel to the dimmer2. Then you will be able to control and dimm your lights from all 2 or 3 (or those hundreds) switches.

 

Edited by TRicky
Typo's
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I can't change the wiring without knocking into walls which I don't want to get into. Each switch has a live, a switched live to the corresponding bulb and then 4 wires connecting the 2 switches. I've had a quick look at pulse switches but there doesn't seem to be much available. 

 

Thanks anyway

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Hi,

 

As the unit is designed to use Sx as the common the only way to achieve what you want is to use a relay switched by the 240v and switch the Sx to S1 wih the relay. 

 

I tried similar to your diagram and was advised it would not work.

 

 

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This works.

Edited by robmac
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Hi,

 

Yes it works.

 

I used some old version fibaro switches that I had spare but I would have thought it would work with any 250VAC relay. You will need to use press switches rather than the intermediate and 2 way you currently have. I had four dimmers controlled from 5 places so used a grid 4 gang with press switches that are available in the UK. 

 

It won't work with new fibaro switch modules as they are not dry contact.

 

I did also consider using controller and/or association from other z-wave modules behind each switch to the actual dimmers connected to the lights. I think it  would work but would cost a lot more.

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But @robmac when you use 'normal'  switches you will face the problem that they all must be switched off to put out the light(s).

Whenever one of the switches remains on the other switches can put the light(s) out.

Also dimming is not possible.

Or are you using momentary switches to control the relay?

 

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Hi,

 

Yes using Momentary. These are also referred to as press in the UK.

 

" You will need to use press/Momentary switches rather than the intermediate and 2 way you currently have. I had four dimmers controlled from 5 places so used a grid 4 gang with press/Momentary switches that are available in the UK.  "

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  • 19 hours ago, robmac said:

    Hi,

     

    Yes it works.

     

    I used some old version fibaro switches that I had spare but I would have thought it would work with any 250VAC relay. You will need to use press switches rather than the intermediate and 2 way you currently have. I had four dimmers controlled from 5 places so used a grid 4 gang with press switches that are available in the UK. 

     

    It won't work with new fibaro switch modules as they are not dry contact.

     

    I did also consider using controller and/or association from other z-wave modules behind each switch to the actual dimmers connected to the lights. I think it  would work but would cost a lot more.

     

    Rob,

     

    This was my original thread that got no replies until now. The diagrams in the first post are mine.

     

    From replies on other forums I have been told I will lose all wall switches in both scenarios unless for example I use a Fibaro Door/Window module with some switches so they can link with the dimmer2 by association and still provide control.

     

    In my case as outlined in the diagrams my switches don't have a neutral and the start switch has the permanent live and the end switch has the switch live which are connected via "stappers" (L1/L2 to L1/L2).

     

    Do you see any option here?

     

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    Hi Eddie,

     

    Looking at your diagrams it looks like you just don't have enough conductors.

     

    Are the neutral to light and perm live to switch just run as singles not twin and earth?

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  • 15 minutes ago, robmac said:

    Hi Eddie,

     

    Looking at your diagrams it looks like you just don't have enough conductors.

     

    Are the neutral to light and perm live to switch just run as singles not twin and earth?

     

    Diagrams are from my electrician, neutral to light and perm live to wall switch 1 connected to wall switch 2 by strappers L1/L2 and then to switch live.

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    Suggest you give the diagram higher up to your electrician.

     

    If the perm live at the switch comes via the light fitting you might be OK.

     

    He would need to put the relay and dimmer at the light fitting and feed N to 1E and the Neutral side of the relay coil to 1A replacing all of your switches with press switches e.g.

    Please login or register to see this link.

     wired as push to make. This assumes he also has a live at the light fitting that is used to feed the live at the switches in your diagrams. This is fairly common in UK wiring and may also be in Ireland.

     

    In this configuration when you press any switch the relay coil circuit is completed for as long as you press. You can configure this on the old fibaro switches. The relay therefore closes the connection between Sx and S1 and so controls your dimmer.

     

    Can you see how you could get a small junction box behind the light fitting to hold the dimmer, connections and relay leaving enough space for cooling?

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    I've found this on vesternet - is there a reason why this wouldn't work with my setup? It would mean using the live & switched live from the same socket for the corresponding light instead of the way it currently works. 

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    It will work as long as you have the correct wires available. Again if the live that you see at the switch has come via the light fitting you could do this.

     

    Your electrician should be able to sort this out. It is very common to take the feed from the board in twin and earth to the lighting rose and take the live from there to the switch. If that is what is in place you should be able to do this.

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    I've found this on vesternet - is there a reason why this wouldn't work with my setup? It would mean using the live & switched live from the same socket for the corresponding light instead of the way it currently works. 

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    OP, Hoping you come back and report on this. I assume (as you pointed out) your problem arises from having no neutral at your switch which is needed for the relay..

     

    The configuration in the OP is commonplace in Ireland and is different to the UK. Permanent live is fed to the wall switches and daisy chained from switch to switch. I'm not an electrician just have been reading up on it a bit.

     

    From the Vesternet site there is the following

     

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    So did you end up having to fish a neutral to the switch?

     

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  • On 12/4/2016 at 3:35 PM, robmac said:

    Suggest you give the diagram higher up to your electrician.

     

    If the perm live at the switch comes via the light fitting you might be OK.

     

    He would need to put the relay and dimmer at the light fitting and feed N to 1E and the Neutral side of the relay coil to 1A replacing all of your switches with press switches e.g.

    Please login or register to see this link.

     wired as push to make. This assumes he also has a live at the light fitting that is used to feed the live at the switches in your diagrams. This is fairly common in UK wiring and may also be in Ireland.

     

    In this configuration when you press any switch the relay coil circuit is completed for as long as you press. You can configure this on the old fibaro switches. The relay therefore closes the connection between Sx and S1 and so controls your dimmer.

     

    Can you see how you could get a small junction box behind the light fitting to hold the dimmer, connections and relay leaving enough space for cooling?

     

    Got my electrician to view your comments he said " The perm Live doesn't come via the light fitting and lives and neutrals are all ran in singles. " Thiink I am snookered?

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