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Sankotronic

Frustration with Fibaro - some thoughts

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I can understand why users can get upset with Fibaro. I had my share of frustration with my HC2 as well. But at the end, when I look back, in past year playing with it I feel that it gave me more nice moments than bad ones. I always liked developing even I left that job for another. Making my home smarter every day gives me great satisfaction and occasional problems can't destroy that.

 

As far as I know there is no other Fibaro forums except French one and this international one. Fibaro UK has a link to forum, this one. I believe that forums are as good as users are, since forums are made for users to help each other and not to be official support. So, as long as there are experienced users on this forum ready to help others its goal is fulfilled.

 

I can check if there is some other forum for home automation, but that will be then general one where is not only Fibaro but everything else discussed. But I believe that we don't need to look around. This forum has experienced users that are always ready to help and when somebody get into difficult problems with his HC then help should be requested from both official support and this forum alike.

 

To be honest, this box is not TV or refrigerator, and many people will have problems with it, either because they are not willing to put some more effort to first learn things or they are expecting that merely just buying it will make their house smart. Unfortunately with Fibaro HC that is not the case, especially with HC2. This system can give a lot, but it requires also a lot from its users, especially knowledge of wireless systems, electrical stuff and at least some basic knowledge in programming rules and good habits.

 

So you see, this system is not for everyone, it is only for those people who like learning, or like technical stuff and have at least basic knowledge. I mean ti is much more than buying new TV and program channels on it!

 

HomeKit is for everyone! Simple, easy to install, easy to configure since there is no much to configure anyway :) Apple philosophy, strip everything away, close system as much as you can so that users just can't change anything and therefore can't *abuse* up anything ;) That is the best choice for many people, but for geeks and people who like challenges Fibaro is the best choice that can be found on market today!

Edited by Sankotronic
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41 minutes ago, Sankotronic said:

I can understand why users can get upset with Fibaro. I had my share of frustration with my HC2 as well. But at the end, when I look back, in past year playing with it I feel that it gave me more nice moments than bad ones. I always liked developing even I left that job for another. Making my home smarter every day gives me great satisfaction and occasional problems can't destroy that.

 

As far as I know there is no other Fibaro forums except French one and this international one. Fibaro UK has a link to forum, this one. I believe that forums are as good as users are, since forums are made for users to help each other and not to be official support. So, as long as there are experienced users on this forum ready to help others its goal is fulfilled.

 

I can check if there is some other forum for home automation, but that will be then general one where is not only Fibaro but everything else discussed. But I believe that we don't need to look around. This forum has experienced users that are always ready to help and when somebody get into difficult problems with his HC then help should be requested from both official support and this forum alike.

 

To be honest, this box is not TV or refrigerator, and many people will have problems with it, either because they are not willing to put some more effort to first learn things or they are expecting that merely just buying it will make their house smart. Unfortunately with Fibaro HC that is not the case, especially with HC2. This system can give a lot, but it requires also a lot from its users, especially knowledge of wireless systems, electrical stuff and at least some basic knowledge in programming rules and good habits.

 

So you see, this system is not for everyone, it is only for those people who like learning, or like technical stuff and have at least basic knowledge. I mean ti is much more than buying new TV and program channels on it!

 

HomeKit is for everyone! Simple, easy to install, easy to configure since there is no much to configure anyway :) Apple philosophy, strip everything away, close system as much as you can so that users just can't change anything and therefore can't *abuse* up anything ;) That is the best choice for many people, but for geeks and people who like challenges Fibaro is the best choice that can be found on market today!

 

Well summarised bro.

 

In short, it is similar to what Apple (Steve Jobs, Johnny Ive, Tim Cooks) have been saying - the simplicity is to hide the complexity in the back so what is presented to the users is simple, restrictive, ease of use interface so that there is nothing for the user to screw it up with. I have attended a training (on something else) late 2016 and the trainer keep emphasise that HUMANS is the CULPRIT of 70% of OUTAGE/BREAKAGE! (or was it 90%? :D).

 

"Intelligence" of any device/appliance/gadget is only as good as the people (programmers) behind it. Is this a good thing or bad thing - up to individual to decide. ;)

Edited by chaicka
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1 hour ago, Sankotronic said:

I can understand why users can get upset with Fibaro. I had my share of frustration with my HC2 as well. But at the end, when I look back, in past year playing with it I feel that it gave me more nice moments than bad ones. I always liked developing even I left that job for another. Making my home smarter every day gives me great satisfaction and occasional problems can't destroy that.

 

As far as I know there is no other Fibaro forums except French one and this international one. Fibaro UK has a link to forum, this one. I believe that forums are as good as users are, since forums are made for users to help each other and not to be official support. So, as long as there are experienced users on this forum ready to help others its goal is fulfilled.

 

I can check if there is some other forum for home automation, but that will be then general one where is not only Fibaro but everything else discussed. But I believe that we don't need to look around. This forum has experienced users that are always ready to help and when somebody get into difficult problems with his HC then help should be requested from both official support and this forum alike.

 

To be honest, this box is not TV or refrigerator, and many people will have problems with it, either because they are not willing to put some more effort to first learn things or they are expecting that merely just buying it will make their house smart. Unfortunately with Fibaro HC that is not the case, especially with HC2. This system can give a lot, but it requires also a lot from its users, especially knowledge of wireless systems, electrical stuff and at least some basic knowledge in programming rules and good habits.

 

So you see, this system is not for everyone, it is only for those people who like learning, or like technical stuff and have at least basic knowledge. I mean ti is much more than buying new TV and program channels on it!

 

HomeKit is for everyone! Simple, easy to install, easy to configure since there is no much to configure anyway :) Apple philosophy, strip everything away, close system as much as you can so that users just can't change anything and therefore can't *abuse* up anything ;) That is the best choice for many people, but for geeks and people who like challenges Fibaro is the best choice that can be found on market today!

 

Hi,

I have been reading the 'support posts' over the holidays. I generally don't add my voice to these types of discussions as they have a tendency to become personal and that's not why I joined this forum but this time I though it important that I chipped in my 2c. (hopefully I wont regret it)

I have been a member of a few forums down through the years like many of the people here, I'm sure. I have never come across the level of politeness, respect, willingness to help others and share knowledge for no reward other than the satisfaction of helping someone else and solving a challenge. For me this has been a journey over the last 18 months and at the start I was in my learning and understanding phase. My ability to give back in some small way has only started in the last couple of months and I'd like to think that this has been a mix of encouragement and technical answers/solutions for some of the newer users who are where I was 18 months ago.

 

I think that @Sankotronic and @alandee have made some very good points that may help (re)set expectations.

 

For me a couple stand out...

  • People can confuse forum moderation and support. In my mind they are separate (as they are with fibaro) and people need to figure out which channel they need for a particular issue and direct the query appropriately.
  • This type of HA is still very much an early adopters space whether people are willing to admit that or not. You need enthusiasm, stamina and a willing to fail and learn all at the same time. HC, Vera, etc are all in the same pond. (if you want a canned solution that is stable, switch to Savant or Control4, etc)
  • We are all part of the QA cycle whether we like it or not because all of our HA installations/automation levels are unique and we have different expectations as to what we want to achieve from it.
  • HC2, HCLite, Vera, Zipabox are definitely not like a TV, Projector or Washing machine no matter how smart they are. It is a multilayered solution of fraught with interoperability challenges and uniqueness. I'm sure you could use a HCx and some sensors/actors to "control" your house from a table or phone that would be extremely stable.
  • The difference in complexity (read stability, challenges, fun for some) between Home Control and Home Automation is huge and I'me not sure a conscious decision is made to move from one to the other is perhaps as considered as it should be for some. Most of use probably drift from (that's cool, I can turn off my lights from the coffee shop) to (wouldn't it be great if I had a Jarvis like Ironman managing my home) without consideration for the consequences or impact
  • For me I wanted to get past the control part and on to the automation as soon as possible but we all have to crawl, walk and run and there have been times when my wife and kids never wished I found fibaro... but heck I don't play golf :-)

Lastly, there is always the option to sell 'that damn wretched box' and get something else. We are all individuals and I know that down through the years there have been things I bought that I regretted and I just moved on.

 

-f

 

 

 

 

Edited by AutoFrank
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Like AutoFrank I read some of the posts and decide not to comment as I don't think my feedback would be appreciated and could get personal butI agree with all the sentiments/comments above. I think people sometimes fail to understand the difference between a support site and a forum. May be Fibaro need to make that clearer.  As for this site I look forward to my daily trawl through here and have to take my hat off to the many experienced members who not only give advice, but share code and inspiration. For me it is those members that make this site. I still have a lot to learn but as long as you are willing to learn and more importantly make mistakes there are many people on here willing to give you help.

 

Edited by andyp

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Well said all ! I love the tone and i agree with you 90%.

 

Let me explain the other 10 %

 

I have been around this forum for quite a while, did a lot of updates, bought a lot of devices, had my share of frustrations and happiness.  When i started this automation journey i didn't know anything about z wave or LUA. I had to learn , and most of what i learned was with the help of the people here.  What makes Fibaro strong is also the community imo. And the community is here; it is a great helpful community with some outstanding members. I 100% agree with the fact that the forum and support channel should not be confused and that they are 2 very different things.

 

But let me tell you what attracted me to home automation: not the perspective that i could turn lights on or off automatically, not the fact that i could monitor movement around the house or other stuff like that.  But the Fibaro marketing ! It is a damn good one. I remember seen pictures with a car driving up the alley towards the garage door, then the garage opening, light turning on and so on.  And i could give you plenty of examples. And it all looked so easy. And this is where the 10% i don't agree with you on comes in.

 

Most likely you have technical background, close to programming so all this stuff i somewhat easier for you.  But Fibaro marketing was not for you. Was for the rest, for the majority. And it was not advertised as a DYI solution where constant tinkering is required and still isn't. I wonder how many people would have bought Fibaro products that come with a label like: "Attention, must have coding background skills to make it work" or "DYI solution, needs weekly maintenance". 

 

I'm speaking about those people: they saw great commercials, stunning pictures, a superb website and it all looked easy; and they invested money in it. And the rest you know.

 

Also speaking about the major difference between support and forum: what happens when you have opened a support ticket and don't get a reply for a month or more ? Where does one vent ? The forum obviously because it is Fibaro's forum in the end. What happens when you ask in a ticket 4 times for feedback as nicely as you can and no one answers ? Come and vent on the forum.

Of course there will always be extremes: people that jump into an upgrade without reading a single line of anything, people that rage on forum and so on. But you must always exclude the extremes. At least that is what i do.

 

It is such an easy problem for Fibaro to solve: communication !!! invest more in communication with the user base. It is obvious Fibaro need more support people, it is obvious Fibaro needs at least one more forum moderator/guru.  Fibaro marketing has done a great job at selling the devices, now the rest of the company must catch up with the user base which grew beyond expectation.  Ask the users for support and patience and they, at least 90% of them will give it gladly as long as they know what is going on. Communicate some roadmap, give updates on the tickets and so on. It is not that complicated really.

 

And that is my story and pov in a nutshell.

 

And to give you a perfect example of very very bad communication with the user base. If i would treat my clients like that they will be very very angry... Still i'm trying as hard as i can to be civilised.  So yes, like i stated so many times i love Fibaro products, i have a ton of them, but i would like the basic stuff to work. And if it doesn't work i would like to know when it will work and what is being done about it.

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi,

 

Just a quick chime in here. I will not get lenghty, but I think that overall the Fibaro team is good. I have mostly gotten quick replies on my questions. I have briefly been away from this forum, since I tried another Home Automation system, but that one is now offline, because I felt it was not as a mature product as Fibaro. It had a tablet, a nice UI and modern web interface, but several times a day it chimed it lost connection, and there was other problems, too, which I never had with my HC2 using exactly the same devices. Both these system you can use very basically (manually click on/off on devices etc.), or you can code and do amazing stuff.

 

And, last but not least, the community here is incredible! I was (and still am) a newbie when it comes to Home Automation and coding, but Sankotronic, Jompa and many more people here have done so many incredible VD's and scenes that have opened my eyes and want me to learn. They have spent countless hours helping people like me here. And without this amazing community, I would probably never have gotten bitten on Home Automation.

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Fibaro is esthetically good, its community is good, its modules are good, even its HC units are - but boy is there alot of room for improvement on SW departement. I have seen very low state around 4.073 Beta which i conssider worst patch released since i've stareted working with Fibaro, but in 2'016 i am confident in writing that they did good enough of a job improving up the HC firmware, they increased forum presence quite a bit and on ocasion they do seem to try and reply to inquieries sent to their support fast enough.

 

All in all 2'016 Fibaro done did good, now sure tehre were hurdles Yahoo weather (NOT working for half of the bloody year, weather still being issue for quite a few people), Swipe (its mere existence is mocking my sanity - how could somone greenlight somethign that just dose not work without permanent powering to have the option for batteries?!), apparent death of dreams regarding GSM and power pack modules for HCL, etc. but they seem to be improving. That is something i congratulate, and wish more of in the future.

 

I only wish that the enthusiasm of people from Myxyty was present in Fibaro dev. team, to compliment its community. (Myxy is bad unit but it has few good ideas and seems to be in good hands, than again it might be problems with how its dessigned - they had one giant server somwhere in France so it takes a while to communicate with unit in central europe i think). See what i think is going on with Fibaro is this: they are ran by marketing division and thus there are huge ammounts of BRAND NEW FUTURES every few months piling on top of each other with no regards for structurall stability of the whole damned system.

 

I repeatidly asked on these forums for Fibaro outsourcing the software for at least a little while to some studio (Domoticz comes to mind) have THEM fix it and preferably make solid baseline to add upon, because at points in last year i was desperate for stability and certain funcions that were just promissed but not delivered. I am certain that if fibaro made dedicated teams for HC2 and HCL (and if it is indeed comming HC3) and developed the software individually, it would work better - but failing that just pool all the programmers into HC2 and have them just make it bloody work, than throw these people unto HCL with same aim. I think that current state of software is passable but it sure could use deep look into its bowels - see if there are some omited or forgotten things. Fibaro has learned a great deal about making SW so i think it could improve the thing.

 

Right i can not just be positive so here you go: Fibaro is mostly good, but somewhat frustrating (BACKUP! we need BACKUP, not some damned image).

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This is a great discussion! I too have a love-hate relationship with Fibaro. When I saw examples of the email exchange between @Momos and Fibaro Support I couldn't stop laughing as I have many, many examples of the passive-aggressiveness that Fibaro Support shows from time to time. The recent mandatory (due to Fibaro ID) firmware upgrade broke support for a core device that I use in many of my installs, and Fibaro's response to me was essentially: "yah, yah, we know about it, it will get fixed when it gets fixed."


Fibaro sure spends a lot of money on marketing but they also have to understand that if you annoy enough clients due to your lack of insight in systems development, people will just move on to other products. The problem is, there are not that many alternatives out there, and each one lacks in one aspect and excels in another.

 

My 2 cents worth :)

Edited by WhiteBeard
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9 hours ago, WhiteBeard said:

This is a great discussion! I too have a love-hate relationship with Fibaro. ... The problem is, there are not that many alternatives out there, and each one lacks in one aspect and excels in another.

 

My 2 cents worth :)

 

To me Fibaro is the best. They could how ever easily improve in some respects. Why they don´t are difficult to grasp. In other areas it may very well be a lot harder to provide a better solution, but they should if they are to prevail. More and more people will go from small installations, manually turning on and off lights, to highly developed and automated solutions. Fibaro would like to be the key, but need to make sure the key does not break, e.g. it will have to be robust in all aspects. At the moment it is hardly so...

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Hi all

 

I'm surprised and impressed at how well-balanced this discussion was.  I either agree with or can empathise with pretty much everything that's been said, although my own experience has been much more on the side of frustration than pleasure.

 

It's precisely because this is a new market with limited choice that people have been willing to put up with behaviour that would be inconceivable in other areas. The advertising and the support responses are the clearest examples. If someone bought a car because of snazzy adverts showing a button in the cabin that heated the seats, and then when you bought the car the button was there but did nothing, and the manufacturer gave no explanation or assurance when you contacted them, I doubt it would be seen as acceptable. In my field (I'm a medical doctor), it is completely unacceptable -- lying in this way would be a probity issue and a serious disciplinary offence. 

 

I've been ready to try another option for years now, and have been watching the recent explosion in home automation tech with interest. What finally pushed me over the edge was my Google Home integration breaking recently after Google and Hue updated their apps. I had struggled for days to get it working -- Fibaro's "solution" does not work and their tech support could not help, so I eventually ran HA-Bridge on my Raspberry Pi and added all my lighting devices to Google via Hue emulation. The new Google Home/Hue integration no longer works with a locally-emulated Hue controller via HA-Bridge, so all my hard work is gone. I considered running a cut-down OpenHab on my RPi just to bridge between the z-wave devices and Google Home, but when I realised this was an option only because OpenHab (despite being free and open source) have received certification from Google for their Google Assistant actions, I became furious. Why can other people do all this work for free when Fibaro (a paid, for-profit company who are taking our money) either can't or won't?

 

I realised that over the years, I've put weeks and weeks of my time into things that Fibaro either should have done, or promised to do but didn't. I've helped my sister out with a few bits and pieces from other systems (she has a Google Home, some Hue kit, and some Nest devices) and I've been so impressed with how they just "work". I think the time has come for me to sell my HC2 and move away from Fibaro. I feel like I've given Fibaro enough time and chances and benefit of the doubt and they haven't shown me the honesty, openness or willingness-to-improve that I want. I feel strung along and angry.

 

Of all the current options, I've decided to go with a HomeSeer SEL-PRO. It's expensive, but only slightly more than what I paid for my HC2, and the company seems to genuinely support its products. Compatibility with other devices and systems seems phenomenal, reviews are very positive, and (most importantly for me) their support forums read very differently to this forum. I won't post my experiences here (this will be my last post), but if anyone is curious, I'm happy for them to find me on the HomeSeer forums and message.

 

Much respect for those of you who remain. Lots about the Fibaro ecosystem is great, and I have no doubt it is the best choice for some people. I just don't think that's true any more for me.

 

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Hi,

 

I'm new to the forum and relatively new to Fibaro. I would like to give my $.02 as well an hopefully provide some feedback from the perspective or a new Fibaro community member but experienced technical person who's contributed to a lot of products, either in development or helping out as part of the community.

I've seen a lot of software/hardware providers over the years and a lot have met with success but also failure due to support or community.

Right now, as mentioned in the previous posts, Fibaro has two things that is keeping them ahead of the competition (for some of us): support and community (forum). I am keeping the two separated on purpose for the following statements.

 

As I'm still new to this community, I'm basing the following on experience with other communities and services but also on my own experience with Fibaro so far. It should be taken with a grain of salt and tolerance.

 

I see support as the service offered by the manufacturer, which in this case is Fibaro. Community support is a whole different ball game and I'll provide my unsolicited opinion on that as well.

A healthy support service should provide:

  1. Ticketing system (regardless of what platform it uses)
    1. General issue tracking - Log known issues that are not user specific. These need to be public and should be maintained. It makes it a lot easier to reference these issues when providing community support. The manufacturer should NOT be afraid to expose these issues.
      As a personal note here: I would prefer to buy a device from any manufacturer, be it Fibaro or any other, that lets me know that issue XX has been reported and is being worked on. This gives me confidence, compared to a silent manufacturer that has no transparency, Would you spent $100 on products from someone who gives you only a device and a whitepaper or manual? How about $1000? How much have you spent so far on home automation that you would feel comfortable with a provider that is completely silent?
      I'll give an example: Companies like Atlassian for example thrive due to the proper issue tracking. People buy the products, even if there are a LOT of known issues because they know those issues will be worked on and they can be checked upon for status updates.
      Forums are NOT a good location for this because they are not designed for tracking statuses. You can make do with a forum but it's a patch job. A simple ticketing system with proper tracking would be great (opened by Fibaro developers, tracked by developers, worked on by developers, only commented upon by public users). This provides transparency.
    2. User issue tracking- Log and track issues that are user specific (example: I am having this issue with this specific device). These should be private, unless escalated to a general issue.
  2. User voice
    1. Product feedback - Users need to be able to suggest improvements to all services and products. These improvements should be moderated and maintained. Users should be able to vote on them. High priority suggestions should go into production. See Microsoft's user voice system.
    2. Service feedback - Periodically actively ask for improvement suggestions for services. Ask the users which services they think need to be improved. Fibaro has a polls section but it's empty. I'm very interested in getting that section started.

 

Now for the reason I kept the community separated:

Forums are great. They're excellent. They provide a good location for users to post their findings, brag about their experiments and give back to the community that helped them. These products are great. I'm not making a sales pitch for Fibaro (not getting paid for it either :P ) but let's be honest, they're versatile, they  give you a lot of possibilities to fiddle around but also shoot yourself in the foot. Once you get hooked, you want to see what else you can do, so you start digging. First comes documentation, then experimentation (hence the shooting of one's own foot) and then inspiration, namely the community. To be honest after reading 2-3 topics, signing up for a user and posting your own feedback is practically induced by these products. Remember the "Oh hey, I did that too, but here's what I got..." feeling you wanted to express? Well, all of us are here for that (or I hope we are :P )

Now, how can the community help Fibaro and itself? Proper tools. Seriously. Proper.Tools. 

I've seen a lot of issues that are known but all over the place on the forum. These need to be tracked. That's Fibaro's job. What should I do as a community member? Well, I will point anyone else who has the same issue to that ticket (yes, there's a lot of pointing that needs to go on), but I can also keep an eye on that issue and when it's marked as fixed, I can give it a spin too. No, free QAs should not be ignored.

I need to eliminate frustration and turn it into productivity. How? Well, if I spend 10 hours banging my head against an issue and then I find that it's a known issues in a very obscure topic, I get frustrated. When I see the post is from 1-2 years ago and maybe it was fixed but no update provided, I get more frustrated. Maybe the original author got his issue solved. Maybe they gave up. Imagine you investing 1-2K in sensors or actors and finding out it has a flaw that you have idea if it's worked on or not. Will you repeat that experience?

How can I turn this into productivity? Well, if you tell me the issue will be worked on, I might actually buy that device and experiment with it until the fix I needed is done. Heck, I might just want to help test the fix.

But how about the situation where that topic links to a tracked issue that is fixed? Don't you stop worrying about that brick of cash you just spent on devices and start reading on how it was fixed and how you can get it to work for you?

 

 

My conclusion: The Fibaro community is healthy right now. It's well moderated, very respectful and productive. But a community needs tools because the community is centered around a set of products and services. I've joined to contribute, as much as I can. I bought products which I hope to use and make my home as automated and smart as my budget and wife will allow. Fibaro promises a lot. Let's be transparent. Fibaro promises a lot, it gets a lot done but also ignores a lot as well. There were a lot of suggestions I wanted to make, found them on the forum (which made me happy) and then discovered complete silence on that topic after a promise that it will be done (which made me sad) or queries for status updates which were never replied to (makes me even sadder).

So as a service provider and manufacturer:

If you promise a fix for a device, that's not something the community can tackle. Open a ticket, make it public. Work on it.

If you need help supporting users with configurations, setups, etc. The community has your back.

If we find an issue, don't ignore it. Add it to the pile (yes, "pile" sounds nasty but a pile you can work with, as long as it's contained) and track it. We'll feel more at ease and will most likely continue to pump budget into this addiction :P

Some of us are enthusiasts who just want a home that's "alive", some are contractors that want to use these products for their customers. Regardless, all of us are here because we're interested. This is no longer a "lead" but a converted "lead". We need help and we want to help. I need help with an issue or my customer is facing an issue that I will need to answer for.

I know this will sound very obvious but I'll say it anyway: Fibaro is doing some things great and it should continue, but there are things which needs improving. Ignoring the community (sometimes) is the first issue that should be fixed. This should be a company wide culture fix. Be transparent. Maybe we can help and build on top of this.

 

Anyway, my "novel" is long enough and will most likely be lost in the forum :P I, for one, will continue to help out because I like these damn products which eat all my money.... Oh and there go my automated lights.... Nice :) 

 

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@winromulus, thank you for your opinion.

 

Forum haven't always had so much moderation I guess. It's changing and you should be able to see that.

 

Maybe you're right about some lack of transparency, but since I'm here, I try to monitor the issues you submit and inform when they are resolved.

You will definitely see here when it's done.

 

We have internal tools for tracking it all. We have bunch of ideas, people, priorities.

 

Take a look at this topic: 

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It was all documented, calculated and tracked. It may look like a mess from the outside, but we do have our ways.

 

Similar, some newer topics: 

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7 hours ago, winromulus said:

Be transparent. Maybe we can help and build on top of this.

I think I was as transparent as I could here.

 

I hope you will appreciate that info.

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Hi @I.Srodka

Yes, I appreciate the information and also your work. It must not be easy to moderate and sync this forum with the JIRA tracker and keep track of everyone's myriad of questions/problems etc.

My suggestion was to create a JIRA project and make it publicly read-able. Something like 

Please login or register to see this link.

 (using JIRA for JIRA examples :P )

You can link the issue to the development private issue if you want. This way we have a page to bookmark and see the status but we can also forward those issues to any similar requests.

Maybe what I was trying to express didn't get through properly: We REALLY appreciate your work and the entire staff's work. This is a difference between what Fibaro is doing and other providers. Heck, this is why I chose to go with Fibaro products. I saw a community, that means insight, which means I'm not alone in tackling issues.

Let me give a concrete example of the opposite: Take Danfoss products. I have 12 TRVs from them that have a bug. There is no community there, no support and e-mails to them go unanswered. I know that I will never be able to use those products and the budget was lost. I personally will not repeat that mistake.

I have Fibaro products that have issues. I found the topics on the forum for them and I've bookmarked all of them. Since they're being worked on, this means I can rest easily and just wait. In the meantime I'll continue my "lab" expansion.

Again, this is an unsolicited opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt. You guys are doing great and that was my take on what could be improved.

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1 hour ago, winromulus said:

My suggestion was to create a JIRA project and make it publicly read-able.

That is also worth noting ; )

 

Older Forum members probably remember other bug-reporting systems at FIBARO. I don't know why but they didn't work as efficiently as some people would expect. Current system is maybe less sophisticated but we get some stuff done.

 

Moreover, I expect that this year will be quite exciting, because there's a lot going on. 

 

Not everyone will utilize, for example, installer access, but this was and is a great work on the backbone of our systems. 

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Now that we are getting things off our chest in long letters, let me chime in…
 
I have been using the HC2 for about 4 years now, so I have some history with it, and although I started out with 6 devices, I am currently at 150, after integrating all lights, plugs, curtains, doors and windows, heating, fans, energy measurement, thermostats, Sonos, Alexa, etc. etc. I guess it becomes an (expensive) addiction once you get serious about it :-)
 
In general, I have been satisfied with the Fibaro controller and modules. I think Fibaro has excellent product (and graphic) designers and innovative engineers. But their software testing and quality control procedures are below par. Products like the intercom and the heat controller should never have been in stores before being thoroughly re-worked.
 
The same goes for the HC2 software updates. Some of the updates should never have gone out, before a lot more debugging took place. Over the years, several updates broke more than they fixed. So to me, the forum has been instrumental in helping to determine when NOT to upgrade. The fact that I had relatively minor problems so far was because I skipped the buggiest of updates.
We have all experienced how annoying it is when devices that have been working for years, suddenly no longer properly function, due to some update (like the HEM’s recently). There are many examples like that.
 
But my real issue is the way customer support works – or doesn’t work. It’s unworthy of an organization that wants to be a global player. The forum is full of people that have to wait weeks for an answer, never get an answer, only get an answer to minor problems and not to the serious ones… Fibaro may think that they are compensating for this by helping out on the forum, but there too is a clear pattern: answers come in waves in between periods of total silence. And the answers that come avoid all painful but very serious matters (like the heat controller).
 
Unlike Peter, the godfather of the forum :-) I do run my own company of some 50 people, so I can compare with how we handle issues with a service or a customer. We drop everything and give total priority to communicating about it to the customer, and putting as many people on it as are needed to fix the problem ASAP.
In case of the heat controller, it’s been on the market for 4 months, and to the outside world, NOTHING was done to inform customers or to remedy the problem as soon as possible. I really don’t understand how it can take 3+ months to fix such a highly anticipated product that was broken from the start. 
 
And then there are the minor but aggravating nuisances… like the missing templates that people have been asking for forever. I wonder how many people have hit the “download” button and sent in a template request for Qubino modules or Sensative strips (2 parameters!). This really shows a small side of Fibaro. If you want to sell a controller, learn to live with the fact that you will need to help people with competing devices too, instead of acting like a baby because it’s a competitor for your own modules. And I know, you will answer that the modules work perfectly without the templates, it’s true, but it’s not user friendly and you could easily remedy that frustration.
 
Another nuisance is the too slow internet services – i.e. connections to other cloud services. Why do other companies succeed in having Alexa react almost immediately? If you offer cloud services, don’t skimp on the budget. It forces your users to build Raspberry Pi’s to get a decent reaction time. So, Alexa, ask Fibaro to reduce latency and increase bandwidth please…
 
And finally, the European GDPR legislation will no longer allow you to get away with “secretive” internet traffic between our homes and your servers. You’re running out of time (end of May) to tell us what data you are downloading from our HC2’s and what you are doing with them. Instead of acting surprised when people discover that there is an intense data stream going to Fibaro and Google, you will have to get our permission…
 
As with previous people in this topic, it became a longer post than I intended, but I can only hope that Fibaro learns from our feedback, because they do create great products. Despite some of the frustrations, I still enjoy my home automation system every single day.
 
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Quote

 So, Alexa, ask Fibaro to reduce latency and increase bandwidth please…

Please.

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the support doesn't exist, I have buy because of that comercial, its true, but almost we must do the work, have so many people that want this system but I don't recommended because we don't have support, true support, solutions, for example, the cameras, mpeg????? we are 2018!!! backup pen on a new HC2 its possible? I like the potencial, but we don't have in Portugal developers to give or sell solutions at fair price. if I want to pay a lot I know I m gonna to KNX.... but it have so potencial.... I will wait.... to see what it comes....

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There isn't much I can add to this topic.. I kinda agree on most or all of it... I miss transparency of Fibaro and would love to see improving that big time.. I hate the fact that several staff members of Fibaro has promised me in the face, several issues would be solved within months... Right now, its 1,5 years further and nothing has changed so far. Fibaro and its mods can tell that many great things will gonna happen soon... If they don't open up to your users and give them the feeling, they don't care to you, inventively, they will turn against you.

Personally, I will keep fighting for the fact that technical staff, has made me a promiss, the native NEST plugin would be back within 3 months.. that was during ISE 2017. At that time the plugin was taken out the HC already for 3 months. Now 1.5 year later.. it is still not there... to stay quiet about all the promissed templates which seem never to come...

Such a shame

Maybe it's time we all should give their management team some personal phonecalls and/or emails, cause sometimes I even wonder if they would ever read their forum (besides the mods)

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