Jump to content

Welcome to Smart Home Forum by FIBARO

Dear Guest,

 

as you can notice parts of Smart Home Forum by FIBARO is not available for you. You have to register in order to view all content and post in our community. Don't worry! Registration is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to sign up. Become a part of of Smart Home Forum by FIBARO by creating an account.

 

As a member you can:

  •     Start new topics and reply to others
  •     Follow topics and users to get email updates
  •     Get your own profile page and make new friends
  •     Send personal messages
  •     ... and learn a lot about our system!

 

Regards,

Smart Home Forum by FIBARO Team


How best to wire Fibaro relays to control central heating?


k1s
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi I'm trying to give my plumber confidence that we can use Fibaro relays to control central heating.  

 

We're going to have 3 under floor heating zones downstairs, each with a [HeatIt] z-wave thermostat, and 6 radiators upstairs, each with a [Popp] z-wave TRV. 

 

I found Adam Bewsher's guidance here:

Please login or register to see this link.

 

But the plumber pointed out that it only refers to a single thermostat.  Could somebody perhaps give me/him some more clues please?

 

Many thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe associations can help? Associate thermostat with Fibaro Switch and make synchronization of the rest. Associated switch is the master for control. But associations needs to be in direct Z-Wave visibility (no repeating).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest spazpeker

If you use the heating panel you would need a relay output for each zone 

with the thermostats linked to the relays in the "linked devices Heating"

do you have a water underfloor heating with a wiring center ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Topic Author
  • Hi - thanks for your message

     

    I'm not sure what you mean by "wiring centre"?

     

    There will be a manifold with motorised valves

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Guest spazpeker

    so if you use the wiring center (and if you can hard wire your heatit thermostats back to your manifold) you wont need the fibaro relays for the 3 underfloor zones

    you would then need 3 dual fibaro relays with there outputs joined together linked to the radiator zone on the wiring center 

    you then link each radiator valve in the "linked devices Heating" so then the fibaro heating panel will work , and the output of the wiring center automatically does boiler and valve control

     

     

    Please login or register to see this link.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

  • Topic Author
  • 18 hours ago, spazpeker said:

    so if you use the wiring center (and if you can hard wire your heatit thermostats back to your manifold) you wont need the fibaro relays for the 3 underfloor zones

    you would then need 3 dual fibaro relays with there outputs joined together linked to the radiator zone on the wiring center 

    you then link each radiator valve in the "linked devices Heating" so then the fibaro heating panel will work , and the output of the wiring center automatically does boiler and valve control

     

    Hi, thanks for your help, and the link to the wiring centre information.  I'm still a little confused about how the components work together, and in particular the relays.  If we have the thermostats wired directly to the 4 zone inputs on the wiring centre, and we don't need relays for each of the 3 UFH actuators, why do we need 3 relays for the single radiator zone?  Not sure exactly what you mean by "outputs joined together linked to the radiator zone". Is there any chance you could scribble on the attached diagram to show me what you mean?

     

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    Many Thanks.  

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Guest spazpeker

    1/ So the three Heatit thermostats are ok, as you see they connect to the wiring centre and it switches on the relevant actuator valve, it also makes boiler enable live if any of the Stats demand Heat

    2/ on the 4th Stat input radiator you don't have a stat there this is where the outputs from the 3 dual relay modules go into the SL (switched Live), again if any of them demand heat then the boiler enable goes Live so zone 4 switch is No as it is a radiator circuit

    3/ the radiator valve in the diagram is the zone valve that your plumber will use for your radiator circuit

    4/ re the hot water demand you can put in a fibaro relay here and then either create a time Scene to control, or in my case i have a temp sensor connected to the tank so my scene heats the hot water for 2 hours when the temperature drops below 43 deg

     

    5/ The reason that you need 3 dual relays is that if you use the heating panel each linked device needs its own circuit. or you end up with one valve trying to turn it on and the rest turn it off

     

    6/ the boiler enable output of the wiring centre goes straight to the boiler, (or you can go via a relay connecting the enable to S1 thus having visualisation of heat demand on your home controller) 

     

    i can sell you the Popp valves if you haven't got them yet

    Please login or register to see this link.

    free postage 10% off with "POPP10" discount code

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    you can put the three relays in this box

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

  • Topic Author
  • Thanks, that's very helpful

     

    I'm still not quite understanding why 3 relays are needed for a single zone (no. 4).  I've attempted to re-draw based on your annotations, and added my understanding of the communications to HC2.  Still also a bit confused about what is needed to control the hot water at the boiler.  

     

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

     

    (Thanks also for the link to your shop.  I may well take you up on that, but still also working out what else I'm going to need.  Currently it's looking something like:
    Fibaro HC2 Control unit  
    Fibaro Dimmer modules x 31    

    Aeon labs multisensor 6 Gen5 (ceiling mounted)  x 13   + recessors  + In-ceiling mains to USB power supply 5v 1.3A  
    Door & window sensors - sensative invisible x 10   + Aeotec Recessed Door Sensor x4 + 'Aeotec Door/Window Sensor 6' x2

    Mains wired smoke alarms Z Wave Popp Smoke Detector-with Indoor Siren Gen5   x 8  + Mains Adapters
    CO Detectors: Z-Wave Popp CO Detector x 2

    Yale 'Smart Living' Keyfree Connected Z-Wave Smart Lock

    + wall switches for 3 Fakro windows, and 3 sets of blinds...)

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Guest spazpeker

    Its Getting there, remember the Popp radiator valves are thermostats so this way you have upto six zones connected to zone4 so you don't need another stat, how many rooms do you have with radiators in ?

    all zone 4 does is turn on the boiler and valve if any of your 6 popp thermostats demand heat separately to their respective relays.

     

    for the hot water you have a three way valve or zone valve that either puts the boiler hot water flow through the coil in your hot water tank to heat your water

     

     

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

  • Topic Author
  • Sorry, I must be a bit slow.  I still don't understand 3 relays for the radiator zone.  

     

    Radiators will be in 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms and a small work room.  I thought I read somewhere that with the Popp TRVs you set a temperature and it tries to keep the ambient at the valve close to the setpoint by opening and closing the valve.  Given it's right next to the radiator, I was thinking it doesn't sound very accurate.  Maybe an alternative would be to use the Aeotec multi-sensors to control the monitor the room temperature?

    2 hours ago, spazpeker said:

    for the hot water you have a three way valve or zone valve that either puts the boiler hot water flow through the coil in your hot water tank to heat your water

     

    I understood that, but what controls it and communicates with the boiler and the HomeCentre2?  Isn't that where the HorstMann Secure SSR303 (or something like it) comes in?

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Guest spazpeker

    Re heating

    So if we take one bedroom as an example say master bedroom.

    1) you have a room in HC2 called master bedroom with all the devices in it inc popp radiator.

    2) you create a zone in the HC2 heating panel called master bedroom, you allocate your master bedroom to it.

    3) You create a linked heating device with the popp thermostat as the sensor and one of the six relay outputs as the controlled device.

    4) you setup the heating panel with all your time / temperatures.

    so now your radiator will change its set point according to the heat panel and if it drops below it will operate the valve and turn on the relay which in turn will demand heat from the boiler and turn on the valve supplying hot Water to your radiatior circuit.

    do the same for the other 5 upstairs rooms and you will have 9 separate heating zones in your house.

    you can override any of them and put any room into holiday mode

    you can also see on your HC2 which relay is demanding heat.

    Re Hot Water

    your HC2 controls either a plug or secure receiver or relay module (I would go for the relay)

    it puts a demand into the hot Water input of the wiring centre

    the wiring centre then demands heat from the boiler as well as controlling the valve that puts hot Water through the heating coil of your water tank

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

  • Topic Author
  • 3 hours ago, spazpeker said:

    3) You create a linked heating device with the popp thermostat as the sensor and one of the six relay outputs as the controlled device.

    Ah, now I get it: each relay has 2 outputs so 3 relays because of 6 radiators...

     

    So if I wanted the multisensors also to have say, I'd have to add more relays?

     

     

    3 hours ago, spazpeker said:

    your HC2 controls either a plug or secure receiver or relay module (I would go for the relay)

    I was thinking the HorstMann Secure SSR303 because it would work manually if the Z-Wave system failed - is that right?

     

     

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Guest spazpeker
    31 minutes ago, k1s said:

    Ah, now I get it: each relay has 2 outputs so 3 relays because of 6 radiators...

     

    So if I wanted the multisensors also to have say, I'd have to add more relays?

     

     

    I was thinking the HorstMann Secure SSR303 because it would work manually if the Z-Wave system failed - is that right?

     

     

     

    You should be able to put a offset into the popp temperature if it reads differently than your  multisensor, all thermostatic valves measure the local temperature to the valve rather than the room.

     

    i think the problem with the SSR303 is when you manually turn it on it goes off after 10 mins

    i have a relay and a override switch for my hot Water 

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Reply to this topic...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

     Share

    ×
    ×
    • Create New...