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FIBARO control my building ~1600 SQM


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Hello guys,

I have a big project running right now, a new building is under construction, and now i prepare electrical systems. All building has around 1600 SQM, and i plan to implement FIBARO, and i really need some advices how to make a powerfull Z-WAVE network to work fine in all rooms.

 

What i need to control whit Fibaro? ALL, lights, alarm, sprinkles, swimming pool pump, swimming pool heaters, outdoor lightning, CCTV cameras, road heater....

 

What i really what to do:

1. I plan to control all building inside and outside lights via FIBARO modules and where is big load, i plan to use contactors.

2. I plan to control all electronic devices that use 220v, boilers, pc in offices, printers... most of them via wall plug and some via single relay.

3. I plan to monitorize all rooms temperature, motion via FIBARO motion sensor

4. I plan to use all FIBARO motion sensor in alarm system

5. I plan to use climate control in rooms...hope nest plugin will be available again...and via Danfoss thermostats.

6. I plan to control and manage sprinkles system via FIBARO modules and some valves and 24v

7. I plan to use FIBARO double relays, and universal sensor equipped with submersible temperature sensor so i can manage temperature in swimming pool. If water is cold....FIBARO will start heating pump

8 . I will use FIBARO for jakuzzi  air pump via double relays and contactor.

9. I will use to control all outdoor yard lights whit a double relays modules and some motion sensor to detect intensity of outdoor lights.

10. I will use to control acces gate via FIBARO double relays V1, to open and close contact.

10. I will use to control roof windows in offices based on FIBARO roller shutter modules

11. I will use Fibaro universal sensor connected to rain sensor to detect rain on the roof and close windows.

12. I will use Fibaro to control all roller shutters from windows.

13. I will use Fibaro for alarm system via DSC and Envisalink 4.

14. I forgot rest :)

 

I want to be modest, but i think is bigger project for FIBARO....hope not only in Romania...:) so i will need some support from them also, will be their biggest advertisement of what FIBARO can do.

To be honest i hope FIBARO will not fail, hope all will work as i expected.

 

I estimate some devices i need, but based on your advices i will change them....i buy only fef from them...and coundting....

 

Fibaro HC2 - 3 PCS

Fibaro double relay V2 - 50 PCS

Fibaro double relay V1 - 12 PCS

Fibaro simple relay - 20 PCS

Fibaro motion sensor - 20 PCS

Fibaro universal sensor - 20 PCS

Fibaro Wall outlet - 20 PCS

Fibaro water sensor - 10 PCS

Fibaro smoke sensor - 15 PCS

Fibaro roller shutter V2 - 8 PCS

Sonos amplifier - 6 pcs

Bose loudspeaker outdoor, not decided yet...

Aeon labs sensor 6  - 10 PCS

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

 

 

Each room will have motion sensor, smoke sensor, windows sensor, roller shutter, lights and wall outlet controled by FIBARO.

Entire building will have on roof rain sensor, moisture sensor, snow sensor and wind sensor.

I plan to put in bigger rooms Ipad's to control.

 

All my electric system will be double, all rooms will be equipped whit switches connected to FIBARO modules and also i need to make some backup switches that work in parallel of Fibaro, and in case of emergency (FIBARO module burn, module unpair whit HC2...other hazards)  will baypas fibaro module and turn on the lights in that room old style, i need to find a place where to put.

 

Let me explain some details about building layout.

1. Basement where TECHNICAL ROOM bill be and 4 storage rooms 164 SQM

2. First floor  which is an open space 33 x 24 m and 4 rooms around 132 SQM

3. Second floor, same 4 rooms around 132 SQM

4. Reception area around 100 SQM open space

5. Lockers around 100 SQM 5 rooms

6. Offices, 4 offices around 100 SQM (above lockers)

 

HC2 - NO1. I plan to put all FIBARO modules on rail case in technical room, connected to first HC2, from there i will wire all lights and switches in entire building, and also build a backup circuit for all lights. Also whit this HC i plan to pair all basement motion, smoke and leak sensor.

HC2 - NO2 .I plan to put second HC2 in master office and pair whit all motion sensor and smoke sensor from offices, lockers and reception area.

HC2 - NO3. I plan to put third HC2 in events ballroom and pair all first and second floor devices.

 

About HOME CONTROL 2

The HC2- NO2, and HC2- NO3 will be bridged to HC1-NO1.

 

Motion sensor, smoke sensor, leak sensor, and universal sensor - POWER

Since is a big project and all devices will be connected, i plan to direct power all sensors to DC, and connect to an UPS. In this case i save a lot of money on battery and i not need to go up to 6m to change battery. I test them, work great, i will explain in next posts.

 

I will update this post whit all my project updates.

 

 

 

First step was to find a company that make me an electric project (paper works) that include all my ideas, that include FIBARO modules in main circuit.

After hours and hours of talk, i remark that i speak alone, all electician engineers looks at me and say is not possible to do that, is to complicate, to many wires...km of wires, and all because i need to make double circuits, and will not work....and so on.

 

I piss off and go to local shop and buy some tools, parts and some wires and start working in garage.

I took a piece of wood and a rail and start making real circuit so i can show to autority so they understand what i really mean, i'm not an electrician but i have ideas, and i start building my own circuit whit save mode or backup mode, i not named yet :)

 

For building, because many employers will work there I need a circuit that will work even if Fibaro module is damaged in any way. 

I will show my idea, and wait your suggestions and comments.

 

This circuit will use :

2 MCB 10A

1 Fibaro relay

2 switches

1 light

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

 

 

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  • 1 hour ago, Mediacut said:

    Hello guys,

    I have a big project running right now, a new building is under construction, and now i prepare electrical systems. All building has around 1600 SQM, and i plan to implement FIBARO, and i really need some advices how to make a powerfull Z-WAVE network to work fine in all rooms.

     

    What i need to control whit Fibaro? ALL, lights, alarm, sprinkles, swimming pool pump, swimming pool heaters, outdoor lightning, CCTV cameras, road heater....

     

    What i really what to do:

    1. I plan to control all building inside and outside lights via FIBARO modules and where is big load, i plan to use contactors.

    2. I plan to control all electronic devices that use 220v, boilers, pc in offices, printers... most of them via wall plug and some via single relay.

    3. I plan to monitorize all rooms temperature, motion via FIBARO motion sensor

    4. I plan to use all FIBARO motion sensor in alarm system

    5. I plan to use climate control in rooms...hope nest plugin will be available again...and via Danfoss thermostats.

    6. I plan to control and manage sprinkles system via FIBARO modules and some valves and 24v

    7. I plan to use FIBARO double relays, and universal sensor equipped with submersible temperature sensor so i can manage temperature in swimming pool. If water is cold....FIBARO will start heating pump

    8 . I will use FIBARO for jakuzzi  air pump via double relays and contactor.

    9. I will use to control all outdoor yard lights whit a double relays modules and some motion sensor to detect intensity of outdoor lights.

    10. I will use to control acces gate via FIBARO double relays V1, to open and close contact.

    10. I will use to control roof windows in offices based on FIBARO roller shutter modules

    11. I will use Fibaro universal sensor connected to rain sensor to detect rain on the roof and close windows.

    12. I will use Fibaro to control all roller shutters from windows.

    13. I will use Fibaro for alarm system via DSC and Envisalink 4.

    14. I forgot rest :)

     

    I want to be modest, but i think is bigger project for FIBARO....hope not only in Romania...:) so i will need some support from them also, will be their biggest advertisement of what FIBARO can do.

    To be honest i hope FIBARO will not fail, hope all will work as i expected.

     

    I estimate some devices i need, but based on your advices i will change them....i buy only fef from them...and coundting....

     

    Fibaro HC2 - 3 PCS

    Fibaro double relay V2 - 50 PCS

    Fibaro double relay V1 - 12 PCS

    Fibaro simple relay - 20 PCS

    Fibaro motion sensor - 20 PCS

    Fibaro universal sensor - 20 PCS

    Fibaro Wall outlet - 20 PCS

    Fibaro water sensor - 10 PCS

    Fibaro smoke sensor - 15 PCS

    Fibaro roller shutter V2 - 8 PCS

    Sonos amplifier - 6 pcs

    Bose loudspeaker outdoor, not decided yet...

    Aeon labs sensor 6  - 10 PCS

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

     

     

    Each room will have motion sensor, smoke sensor, windows sensor, roller shutter, lights and wall outlet controled by FIBARO.

    Entire building will have on roof rain sensor, moisture sensor, snow sensor and wind sensor.

    I plan to put in bigger rooms Ipad's to control.

     

    All my electric system will be double, all rooms will be equipped whit switches connected to FIBARO modules and also i need to make some backup switches that work in parallel of Fibaro, and in case of emergency (FIBARO module burn, module unpair whit HC2...other hazards)  will baypas fibaro module and turn on the lights in that room old style, i need to find a place where to put.

     

    Let me explain some details about building layout.

    1. Basement where TECHNICAL ROOM bill be and 4 storage rooms 164 SQM

    2. First floor  which is an open space 33 x 24 m and 4 rooms around 132 SQM

    3. Second floor, same 4 rooms around 132 SQM

    4. Reception area around 100 SQM open space

    5. Lockers around 100 SQM 5 rooms

    6. Offices, 4 offices around 100 SQM (above lockers)

     

    HC2 - NO1. I plan to put all FIBARO modules on rail case in technical room, connected to first HC2, from there i will wire all lights and switches in entire building, and also build a backup circuit for all lights. Also whit this HC i plan to pair all basement motion, smoke and leak sensor.

    HC2 - NO2 .I plan to put second HC2 in master office and pair whit all motion sensor and smoke sensor from offices, lockers and reception area.

    HC2 - NO3. I plan to put third HC2 in events ballroom and pair all first and second floor devices.

     

    About HOME CONTROL 2

    The HC2- NO2, and HC2- NO3 will be bridged to HC1-NO1.

     

    Motion sensor, smoke sensor, leak sensor, and universal sensor - POWER

    Since is a big project and all devices will be connected, i plan to direct power all sensors to DC, and connect to an UPS. In this case i save a lot of money on battery and i not need to go up to 6m to change battery. I test them, work great, i will explain in next posts.

     

    I will update this post whit all my project updates.

     

    1. First step was to find a company that make me an electric project (paper works) that include all my ideas, that include FIBARO modules in main circuit.

    After hours and hours of talk, i remark that i speak alone, all electician engineers looks at me and say is not possible to do that, is to complicate, to many wires...km of wires, and all because i need to make double circuits, and will not work....and so on.

     

    I piss off and go to local shop and buy some tools, parts and some wires and start working in garage.

    I took a piece of wood and a rail and start making real circuit so i can show to autority so they understand what i really mean, i'm not an electrician but i have ideas, and i start building my own circuit whit save mode or backup mode, i not named yet :)

     

    For building, because many employers will work there I need a circuit that will work even if Fibaro module is damaged in any way. 

    I will show my idea, and wait your suggestions and comments.

     

    This circuit will use :

    2 MCB 10A

    1 Fibaro relay

    2 switches

    1 light

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

    Quote

    Is posible to add other HC2 or HCL to this Z-WAVE network as a "secondary" controller so i can expand network?

    How secondary controller work?

    Work as a repeater, or how?

    If i put master controller in basement and secondary in office my z-wave will be extended and cover double area?

     

     

     

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    Interesting topic, with a potential impressive setup I must say!

    I would STRONGLY advise you to turn to Fibaro and ask their support, possibly via their local distri. This is a big setup, for which I can imagine they will have some time to advise/support/guide :)

     

    I would be careful though ignoring several professionals' feedback and designing your own solutions as an 'amateur'.. Just my 2 cents :)

     

    Either way, gonna follow this thread; looks promising. Good luck!!

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    Hi @Mediacut,

     

    That sounds like a big project!

    Some first thoughts:

    1) Why do you want to put all Fibaro modules in one place and wire from there? The strong thing with fibaro is that you have to do minimum wiring because they are controlled wirelessly.

    Otherwise you also could use something like KNX. Also when the inputs of Fibaro modules are connected with long cables you will get interference / problems.

    In your prefered situation you eliminate the pro's of Fibaro and you add a lot of risks of interference.

    2) 2 HC-2's (or more) in Master-Slave mode works fine. BUT...... all devices added in the slave HC-2 have to be imported into the Master HC-2 and all changes to the settings of modules have to be done in the slave HC-2. So that's a bit more work.

    In my situation I have more than 3860 m2 but I have to cover about 2500 m2 and that works fine with 2 HC-2's but I use much more bigger antenna's. But (again) the coverage is mainly defined by the Mesh-function; most modules act as a repeater and extend your Z-Wave network coverage.

    3) You prefer  the Fibaro Motion sensors (great product) but you want to have them on external DC power. That works with sensors like AEON MS (USB powered) but the Fibaro motion sensors are battery powered only! 

     

    Keep the forum updated on your progress!

     

    TRicky

     

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  • 57 minutes ago, MaTi said:

    Interesting topic, with a potential impressive setup I must say!

    I would STRONGLY advise you to turn to Fibaro and ask their support, possibly via their local distri. This is a big setup, for which I can imagine they will have some time to advise/support/guide :)

     

    I would be careful though ignoring several professionals' feedback and designing your own solutions as an 'amateur'.. Just my 2 cents :)

     

    Either way, gonna follow this thread; looks promising. Good luck!!

     

    Hi Mati,

    Thanks for feedback, i will have some professional electrician...hope to find them :) and about FIBARO local dealer....they just sell....never mount some :)  so i'm on my own!

     

    44 minutes ago, TRicky said:

    Hi @Mediacut,

     

    That sounds like a big project!

    Some first thoughts:

    1) Why do you want to put all Fibaro modules in one place and wire from there? The strong thing with fibaro is that you have to do minimum wiring because they are controlled wirelessly.

    Otherwise you also could use something like KNX. Also when the inputs of Fibaro modules are connected with long cables you will get interference / problems.

    In your prefered situation you eliminate the pro's of Fibaro and you add a lot of risks of interference.

    2) 2 HC-2's (or more) in Master-Slave mode works fine. BUT...... all devices added in the slave HC-2 have to be imported into the Master HC-2 and all changes to the settings of modules have to be done in the slave HC-2. So that's a bit more work.

    In my situation I have more than 3860 m2 but I have to cover about 2500 m2 and that works fine with 2 HC-2's but I use much more bigger antenna's. But (again) the coverage is mainly defined by the Mesh-function; most modules act as a repeater and extend your Z-Wave network coverage.

    3) You prefer  the Fibaro Motion sensors (great product) but you want to have them on external DC power. That works with sensors like AEON MS (USB powered) but the Fibaro motion sensors are battery powered only! 

     

    Keep the forum updated on your progress!

     

    TRicky

     

     

    Hi TRicky,

    Thank for reply. 

     

    1. Since i project entire building to have a technical room, i plan to use it.

    Let me explain why. All modules for smart home become better and better every day, and in near future we will move to next technology, maybe z-wave extra or what will be their name and will be more easy to update since all is in same place.

     

    My house was build in 2006 and all electric system made standard....i have in each room, in wall, cable box and cable come from there to switch box and go back to ceiling light, and from each cable box circuit go to main MCB box. When i mount first FIBARO module, i found that i not have N cable, only L that is switched from switch, so i need to break walls to find cable box, and add another wire to switch box so i can add FIBARO....and i do that for 7 rooms....you can imagine what a mess.

     

    In this new building, i plan to bring all cables from switches and lights to technical room, and there i made all connection to FIBARO and to their MCB and backup circuit, and how i say, in case of update will be more easy to update. 

    The main problem is that my technical room is in the basement, and all walls are made from concrete 30cm. That i prefer to put all modules in same room, to avoid miscommunication from HC to modules. My long output circuit is 60m...i will test this month whit some cable in the field, and determinate which cable need to use, i just order another HC2 for real test purpose.

     

    2. Regarding to HC master and slave, what i plan is to use master HC in technical room for module mount there in rail, and rest of sensor like, motion sensor, smoke sensor, windows sensor to be connected to slave HC mounted in office. I still have in mind idea to make another MCB box in office and there to put all modules from that area, including FIBARO modules. In this way i will have 2 powerful z-wave network that HOPE cover my building.

     

    Ideal is to mount FIBARO modules into switch box to extend Z-WAVE as they was projected, but in this case i can't make backup circuit. If something happen, no more control of lights in that room. Since is a public building....i need backup. What happen if a hight voltage come to network and burn some Fibaro modules, how i can use building anymore? i need to go to switch box, unscrew module, replace, pair whit HC and so on. If they are in technical room, i can turn on off FIBARO MCB and backup work like standard system until fault is done. I have some experience whit some FIBARO modules.....

     

    Nice to hear you have 2 HC in master in slave, but i see an option in HC interface,  ADD "SECONDARY" CONTROLLER, what that mean, have any idea? 2 Fibaro HC act as one, or how? This i not know!

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

    3. I know aeon, i will buy 1 for test in my home, but i prefer to use FIBARO whit FIBARO, and regarding to power, i already have FIBARO sensor in my home o DC power, and no issue until now.

    For new building i plan to use server PC power source that has several outputs +12v, +5v,  and +3.3v and great amperage, around 20A on 3.3V and 16A on 12v.

    I will use that because, first of all is made to run 24 to 24, second is cheaper, ant third in case of short will turn off safe, i will made connector OEM in technical room, and in case of fault, just remove connector and put other new.

     

    12v will be used for smoke sensor and leak sensor and 3.3v will be used for FIBARO motion sensor....even is 100m away from sensor, a cable 2 x 0,5mm will delivered at end 3v and is more that enough for them, i test :)

     

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    Don't they work with subco's or anything?

    I know my supplier here in The Netherlands works with platinum certified Fibaro installers!

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    9 minutes ago, Mediacut said:

    Nice to hear you have 2 HC in master in slave, but i see an option in HC interface,  ADD "SECONDARY" CONTROLLER, what that mean, have any idea? 2 Fibaro HC act as one, or how? This i not know!

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    Hi @Mediacut,

     

    Use "Gateway connection" (In Configuration Menu in the left) that is for connecting 2 or more HCs (connects them via IP).

     

    Add "seccondary" controller feature should be for adding additional Z-Wave controler via Z-Wave.

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  • 2 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

    Hi @Mediacut,

     

    Use "Gateway connection" (In Configuration Menu in the left) that is for connecting 2 or more HCs (connects them via IP).

     

    Add "seccondary" controller feature should be for adding additional Z-Wave controler via Z-Wave.

     

    Hello, 

    I know to use gateway connection, i not know what secondary controller do, how they work?

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    When linking them over IP, what exactly happens with node ID's?

    Let's say both have a node with ID '3' when you link them.. Or even ID '1'? :)

     

    And can you still script with both using LUA, ie can I control/monitor ID x on the other controller?

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    7 minutes ago, Mediacut said:

     

    Hello, 

    I know to use gateway connection, i not know what secondary controller do, how they work?

     

    It should add additional controler into existing Z-Wave network. I did not managed to get this work. FIbaro support said, it is planned, so i do not know now.

     

    5 minutes ago, MaTi said:

    When linking them over IP, what exactly happens with node ID's?

    Let's say both have a node with ID '3' when you link them.. Or even ID '1'? :)

     

    And can you still script with both using LUA, ie can I control/monitor ID x on the other controller?

    In master HC2 devices will receive new ID. In a REST there will appear additional property, which point to ID of device in slave HC and ID of Slave Gateway ID in Master HC2.

     

    Edited:

    In REST API, folowing appear (ID of devices in my enviroment):

    "remoteGatewayId": 796,

    "remoteDeviceID": 14,

     

    Imported devices appear with new frame:

    slave-frameColor.png.3e5f8004c3b5834970539a4afc1a3dd4.png

    Edited by jakub.jezek
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  • 2 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

     

    It should add additional controler into existing Z-Wave network. I did not managed to get this work. FIbaro support said, it is planned, so i do not know now.

     

    In master HC2 devices will receive new ID. In a REST there will appear additional property, which point to ID of device in slave HC and ID of Slave Gateway ID in Master HC2.

     

    I wait my second HC2 and i'll do real test :)

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    @Mediacut: all fuses for each room will  be where? In tehnical room or in each floor level? I think the best is in each floor level because of cable length. Or maybe you can add small fuse box in each room for main power. shorter cables for backup and fibaro switches.... in this small fuse box you can add fuse for power fibaro relays, for backup, some contactor to control one of main or backup circuit, fibaro modules... then you can use only one switch (not two- one for main switch, one for backup)... 

     

     

    BTW: where you get Double relay switch V2 for DIN rail?

     

    Edited by ggrizliv
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  • Hello,

    I will keep in mind idea with mini fuse box, is a good one. I will check where I can put this to look good...

     

    other thing, how to use same switch? Not understand....sorry

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    If I'm wrong, please someone correct me...

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    you can add another contactor to totaly separate fibaro circuit...

    Edited by ggrizliv
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  • 1 hour ago, ggrizliv said:

    If I'm wrong, please someone correct me...

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    you can add another contactor to totaly separate fibaro circuit...

     

    Hello,

    Not understand what is K1, I plan to make this week your circuit for real and test.

     

    Edit: K1 = contractor?

    Edited by Mediacut
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  • This week I'll make a sample:)

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    Hi @Mediacut,

     

    Here's an example how the Master - Slave configuration works.

    On M-S 01 you can see my AEON movement sensor that is added to the slave HC-2, down left you can see it has the ID 667.

    On M-S 02 you can see the details of the movement sensor as added in the slave HC-2.

    On M-S 03 you can see the same movement sensor imported in the Master HC-2, marked with a yellow ring and the NEW ID as used in the Master, the 'new' ID can been seen down left.

    On MS-04 you can see the detailed info of the imported movement sensor in the Master HC-2

     

    Any changes made on the movement sensor have to be made in the Slave HC-2!

     

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    Hi @Mediacut,

     

    The idea of using a PC power supply is a good idea.

    Myselves I use (2th hand, refurbished) HP power supplies of HP Servers. They can be bought for around € 50 on Ebay.

    They supply secondarily 575 Watt's on +5 Volt, +12 Volt and - 12 Volt.

    I use them to power several sensors and (very important) to power my RGB led strips (about 40 meters length in total)

    but also to power a car radio built in my bathroom and to supply most of my camera's outside.

    These power supplies are very reliable.

    To use them you have to make some small changes inside and then you also can control the fan speed so they produce less noise as in the standard mode.

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    Edited by TRicky
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