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Secondary controllers....


AutoFrank

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Hi

I'd like to start a post on secondary controllers and gets people's feedback on their thoughts and more importantly experience.

 

My setup has grown in both scope and complexity and even though I have a redundant method of doing most things ( light switches, Sonos music app, security keypads, alarm clocks, etc) I like to see if it is possible to set something up that will offer some limited control/ automation in the case of my hc2 crashing. 

 

...now who wants to go first ;)

 

 

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I have a siemens logo 8 module. A lot of lights and sockets in my house, as well as some basic intelligence was deployed on those logo modules. Since I bought hcl I connected an output to the electrical socket on which hcl (and recently also hc2) is connected. Siemens logo 8 (most recent version) has limited webserver and app functionality. In case of HC failure ( which is very rare) I can access the webserver via siemens app and switch off power to my HC. Thats my backup.

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40 minutes ago, AutoFrank said:

Hi

I'd like to start a post on secondary controllers and gets people's feedback on their thoughts and more importantly experience.

 

My setup has grown in both scope and complexity and even though I have a redundant method of doing most things ( light switches, Sonos music app, security keypads, alarm clocks, etc) I like to see if it is possible to set something up that will offer some limited control/ automation in the case of my hc2 crashing. 

 

...now who wants to go first ;)

 

 

z-wave devices are included to one zwave controller, if that controller crashes there is no way to control them with another zwave controller without including the devices to the new controller

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I have added zwave to my "dumb"house to make it smart, when the controller dies, everything works using the switches in the wall.

We are moving to our new home in November and that will be a complete renovation (again). but will build a dumb house as base and add z-wave so when things start to break down in lets say 8 years it'll be a few hours to remove all the zwave and still have a normal functioning home :)

 

Jim

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What @akatar says is true for Fibaro, although there SHOULD have been a replication function inside the HCL/HC2 as this is mandatory by Sigma to get certified in the first place.

Therefore, not sure why FIbaro's gateways don't have this option..

2 hours ago, jimicr said:

I have added zwave to my "dumb"house to make it smart, when the controller dies, everything works using the switches in the wall.

We are moving to our new home in November and that will be a complete renovation (again). but will build a dumb house as base and add z-wave so when things start to break down in lets say 8 years it'll be a few hours to remove all the zwave and still have a normal functioning home :)

 

Jim

 

Something you have probably taken into account; but just to be sure: :)

Our Dutch houses are infamous for not having blue, neutral wiring to their light switches. So when doing your renovation, please do invest in making sure you get all switches equiped with blue as well.. :)

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Just now, MaTi said:

What @akatar says is true for Fibaro, although there SHOULD have been a replication function inside the HCL/HC2 as this is mandatory by Sigma to get certified in the first place.

Therefore, not sure why FIbaro's gateways don't have this option..

 

All my experiments with secondary controllers ended in tears (about 10 experiments, Fibaro, Z-way and Aeon)...

 

For instance, the latest Z-wave.me software has removed the option to move the primary. They removed it because "there were issues" and there is no eta for this feature.

 

A word of advice: make a test setup, with test controllers, not production...

 

 

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I know :) Yet, on paper it should not be rocket science to replicate a zwave network from one controller to another.

(I know the real world is different). If everyone in this world would stick to Sigma's official instruction sets we'd all come along quite nicely.. ;)

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@MaTi I am an electrician. So there will be plenty of black wires going everywhere as well. But thanks for reminding me :)

 

Jim

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31 minutes ago, MaTi said:

I know :) Yet, on paper it should not be rocket science to replicate a zwave network from one controller to another.

(I know the real world is different). If everyone in this world would stick to Sigma's official instruction sets we'd all come along quite nicely.. ;)

 

it is possible with fibaro, only you are not allowed to do this.

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With z-wave there is no redundancy with secondary controller, but I builded mine HA the way we can go back to dumb control if Angelina really dies. I have one remotely controlled WiFi socket that I can turn on/off with my mobile phone from anywhere in the world (if have connection of course) and like that try to restart Angelina if it just get stuck or frozen (frigid) :-P 

 

Socket is this one: 

Please login or register to see this link.

 and thanks to @Bodyart for finding it. It has its own application independent from Angelina.

 

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as long the official solution from Fibaro is not ready, you can always give me a call/send your latest backup of the HC2 and i will restore it to any other HC2. You can even get full clone now (we have already customers with such solution in place), when the HC2 is broken, you will have only to plugin the replacement HC2 and boot it. Sure, if there is inconsistency, this need to be manually fixed (scenes, devices), where of course this can be done automatically with some additional work (reboot first, export backup, shutdown first, do some magic, boot second, restore backup, shutdown second, boot first).

 

Regards secondary controller, yes, you can add HC2 or HCL to HC2 controlled zwave network, you will get devices replicated as well, and yes, some zwave plus devices will not work after that properly. With zwave devices no issues, tested a ton of devices and always same situation, it worked. I spoke with Fibaro, but they have not fixed it yet. One have to understand them, they have implemented it as this is mandatory function and must work in order to get gateway certified, they did what required.  Now years later, the replication is bit broken with some zwave plus devices, and honestly Fibaro must not fix that (even so, they promised to work on that). In the meantime i recognized, that the reason is right after replication, the affected modules not getting the id change of the controller, so they trying to talk to the old primary right after it has been removed, i though i could investigate what need to be done here (one could use CIT or even better any other zwave stick - added as secondary to HC2, zwave.me sticks are working very good - with latest sigma designs zwave pc controller software to send specific command to let them recognize the change of controller, if someone wish to play with that, i have all the necessary tools), but due to lack of time for low priority things i stopped it (having maybe total 10 customers in last 2 years asked for migration to different controller, where most hardware is working, was not necessary to spend lot of resources on this). Btw., the best firmware version for migration (in my opinion) it 4.056, as it does sync automatically, but even latest version should work (blame me if not, the last version i tested is 4.110). The problem, where one or more zwave plus devices are "there" but not working is on all 4.xxx versions, however hardware before 4.056 (2yrs old devices) are working, but the latest (beeeeeep, some fibaro zwave plus devices are affected as well) hardware is loosing the proper "route".

 

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@tinman could you elaborate a bit more on these cloned controllers. Are these just simple computers with a z-wave antenna?? 

Edited by matt1981
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Please login or register to see this link.

has a lot of info, if this is forbidden to post here, admins please delete this post!

 

Jim

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guys, you misunderstood me, clone means "a copy of your HC2 system and settings", not HC2 hardware clone. That means, everything what on source HC2 will be copied to destination HC2, all devices, settings, network, database, homeid, zwave network, just everything. The destination HC2, if powered together with source HC2 will of course make very strange things on zwave network (well, IP as well when connected to network at same time), so one can use it only as kind of hot swap replacement when the main HC2 is not working anymore.

 

EDIT: why you would like to clone the hardware? Not saying this is not possible, but what for?

 

Edited by tinman
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No idea, is missunderstood i guess

hc2 is no more than a standard mainboard etc, i thought nothing special

 

even synology software can be run on standard pc so it acts as a synology highend disc- or rackstation

 

most of the time in the hardware world a clone  looks like and acts like but is not original

Edited by akatar
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Same here. I read a little bit more in-depth on this and now I have a better understanding that this process allows you to copy your encrypted internal usb backup stick.

Edited by matt1981
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  • Topic Author
  • Thanks everybody for the comments on this. I have lots more reading t9 do before deciding my next move. I do have a Vera Lite and Vera Edge I may dust off and getting running to play around with some of these ideas 

     

    I think it would be great to create a dev platform and try out some new ideas and for that I'll need a second HC2 but don't want to spend the money on a new one. 

    If anybody hears if somebody trying to divest themselves from their HC2 please pm me ....

     

     

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