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HC2 & Zigbee


AutoFrank
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Hi

I know the hc2 doesn't natively support zigbee but I was wondering if anybody (through an additional device ) manage to connect a zigbee device with the hc2

 

There is a great selection of zigbee devices including wall controllers on the market and would be great to be able to leverage them....

 

Thanks 

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34 minutes ago, AutoFrank said:

Hi

I know the hc2 doesn't natively support zigbee but I was wondering if anybody (through an additional device ) manage to connect a zigbee device with the hc2

 

There is a great selection of zigbee devices including wall controllers on the market and would be great to be able to leverage them....

 

Thanks 

 

Hi Frank,

 

Im not doing it myself but the VeraPlus supports zigbee. You would be able to use it as a gateway/ bridge to control from Fibaro.

 

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@AutoFrank i have read on the french forum that users are using JEEDOM installed on a RPI as a bridge for zigbee, 433mhz, controllers and also for the broadcom ir repeater.  there's quite a few forums on how they set it up and to use it.  JEEDOM is a free HA software thats loaded on RPI, that you add zigbee, etc antennas to.  its very cheap alternative that has proved quite successful for quite of few of them. 

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I am not up to date with latest developments, so I might be wrong. As I understand it, zigbee standardizes a communication protocol. But that is where it ends. Z-Wave defines what a "dimmer" is. Or a "thermostat". And valid values for its parameters. So you can add any device to any controller, to get at least basic functionality (the Fibaro RGBW works with any controller, but it looks nicer on a HC). Philips Hue is zigbee. Ikea Tradfree is zigbee. But I think you need both gateways if you want to control them. And learn "some kind of internet API" to control them. Or install a home automation system that has plugins for those gateways. I think there is some initiative to standardize basic stuff. But is there some controller software, which can control any zigbee device? Assuming the controller hardware has a zigbee radio?

 

Wifi enabled devices: same issue. It is all "wifi" but that is where the standard ends. Learn some api, or, if you are lucky, the device supports MQTT or CoAP, but I bet you stil need the data sheet of the protocol to get anything done.

 

Bluetooth or BLE, same issue.

 

The zigbee protocol at least has mesh networking, while wifi and BT mesh is "under development".

 

Can someone enlighten me, regarding the standardization and interoperability of zigbee devices and controllers, please?

Edited by petergebruers
Typos and RGBW example
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  • Thanks 

     

    I was mainly interested in have a zigbee scene controller  execute scenes and VD's on the hc2 so no real interaction with sensors or actors 

     

    Anybody explore using the HA bridge on a pi with a zigbee use stick  to do this ?? 

     

     

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    Edited by AutoFrank
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    Philips HUE bridge can handle some of the non Philips devices like Osram Lightify bulbs and some others. Also they have some scene controller and motion sensors that can be set to control some things on HC2 with simple code to retrieve state of the controller.

     

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  • 22 minutes ago, Sankotronic said:

    Philips HUE bridge can handle some of the non Philips devices like Osram Lightify bulbs and some others. Also they have some scene controller and motion sensors that can be set to control some things on HC2 with simple code to retrieve state of the controller.

     

     Interesting @Sankotronic

    That's the physical bridge... correct ?

     

    I wonder could the HA bridge (that emulates the hue) work with an external zigbee dongle?? 

    Found this which looks promising...

     

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    I'll dig a little deeper ...

    Edited by AutoFrank
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    1 hour ago, Sankotronic said:

    Philips HUE bridge can handle some of the non Philips devices like Osram Lightify bulbs and some others. Also they have some scene controller and motion sensors that can be set to control some things on HC2 with simple code to retrieve state of the controller.

     

     

    Ok, so:

     

    Hue bulb, Osram bulb, Hue Motion Sensor <-> Hue Bridge <-> internet protocol stuff, IFTTT, Hue phone app, plugins, blah blah. Due to support either via VD or Fibaro plugin you can use devices connected to the Hue Bridge. 

     

    But not: Ikea Tradfri <-> Hue Bridge... Ikea has their own bridge, so:

     

    Ikea Tradfri bulb, Ikea Tradfri Remote Control, ... more Ikea stuff <-> Tradfri Bridge <-> internet protocol stuff. Ikea promises an API and as it stands, I can find the gateway supports - HOLD YOUR BREATH NOW :-) - LwM2M (Lightweight machine-to-machine) meanwhile is a system standard in the Open Mobile Alliance. It includes DTLS, CoAP, Block, Observe, SenML and Resource Directory and weaves them into a device-server interface along with an Objects structure based on IPSO Smart Object Guidelines.

     

    Why are Tradfri bulbs and Hue bulbs incompatible on a HUB level? As far as I can tell, HOLD YOUR BREATH NOW, AGAIN - it is because Tradfri uses ZHA, not ZLL like Hue and Osram. Not All zigbee is zigbee, after all... It goes without saying, even when they would be compatible at a "link level", Philips only supports Philips stuff on their gateway.

     

    Now, start breathing again...

     

    Am I correct? I might be wrong, I do not own any of this technology, but I am reading a lot ;-)

     

    If so, the future of non-Z-Wave technology looks like this:

     

    Home Automation System

    <-> Bridge for Brand/Manufacturer/technology e.g. HUE with mostly HUE stuff.

    <-> Bridge for Brand/Manufacturer/technology e.g. TRADFRI.

    <-> Bridge for Brand/Manufacturer/technology e.g. BLuetooth stuff.

    <-> Bridge for Brand/Manufacturer/technology e.g. NEST ecosystem.

     

    While Z-Wave an Apple "dingus" what-sit-called look like:

    Controller

      <-> stuff from different vendors.

     

    They control the whole thing. Both patent holders are, how shall I put it politely... "IN CONTROL".

     

    Well, in fact, your Z-Wave controller cannot ignore all those nice things, so all Z-Wave controllers look more and more like:

     

    Z- Wave Home Automation System

    <-> Z-Wave chip <-> Lots of stuff from different vendors.

    <-> Plugin for Bridge of HUE. <-> HUE bridge

    <-> Plugin for bridge of TRADFRI <-> Tradfri bridge

    <-> Repeat for bluetooth, nest, netatmo, ...

     

    The only essential difference is... You have to "shoehorn" all that stuff in a model that works (Look at HomeSeer, Vera, open source stuff...) for the end user or the programmer. All stuff has, in the end, the appearance of "a dimmable light" or "a humidity sensor" or ...

     

    Maybe, we are back where the internet started: lots of stuff, glued together by a "pile of standards". Is "a pile of standards" a kind of standard?

     

    I'm not making this up, this is a quote from ha-bridge: "Emulates Philips Hue API to other home automation gateways such as an Amazon Echo or other systems that support Philips Hue. The Bridge handles basic commands such as "On", "Off" and "brightness" commands of the hue protocol. This bridge can control most devices that have a distinct API."

     

    I think it sums up all the concept I mentioned before... API, shoehorn, bridge and above all: "can control most devices". Mind the subtle addition of "most".

     

    Now suppose Fibaro released a HC3 as a Z-Wave controller, that could control "Most of the Z-Wave devices". That would be... You be the judge!

     

    EDIT: someone on the internet --- yes, that is a reliable source :-D --- that IKEA has recently said (august 2017) their bulbs will be fully ZLL compatible as of the next firmware update so then you can mix and match Hue and Tradfri bulbs, hubs and actuators as needed. See 

    Please login or register to see this link.

     Maybe this compatibility debate gets a happy ending after all...

    Edited by petergebruers
    Add statement: Ikea plans ZLL compatibility.
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    Innr is a dutch company that makes smart LED lights that easily pair with a hue hub. They look like they're at the same level in the aspect of esthetics and a lot cheaper too! I found them on Amazon UK. 

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    10 hours ago, matt1981 said:

    Innr is a dutch company that makes smart LED lights that easily pair with a hue hub. They look like they're at the same level in the aspect of esthetics and a lot cheaper too! I found them on Amazon UK. 

     

    Thanks for sharing...

    Not trying to dismiss the idea at all, but I saw this note, I think it highlights, again, that compatibility amongst "Zigbee" might be an issue.

     

    Quote: "Important note: This item works over Zigbee with the bridge from Innr, Philips Hue or Osram. It can also be (voice) controlled by Amazon Alexa, Google Home or Samsung Smartthings, when combined with a Hue bridge. *The Hue bridge does currently not support Apple HomeKit control for non-Philips lamps, but the innr lights can be controlled by the Hue app."

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    No, I agree. Zigbee has been a mess, in that their is no single protocol and it's up the developer to decide, leaving the consumer "hostage" to their choice, if we choose to stick with their products and not sticking with a unified format... 

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    Not all, but some of Innr lights ARE compatible with Philips HUE.

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    On 21. 8. 2017 at 11:55 AM, matt1981 said:

    No, I agree. Zigbee has been a mess, in that their is no single protocol and it's up the developer to decide, leaving the consumer "hostage" to their choice, if we choose to stick with their products and not sticking with a unified format... 

    Totally agree. I have some experience with Control4 Zigbee devices (dimmers, motion sensors, Control4 remote control) and gosh i would like to see more integrated via Zigbee there. HUE, Tradfi, Danalock (Yale is overpriced) for instance.

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