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How to put a Single switch 2 in parallel with a latching relay


Frankhermie
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Question

This is my last attempt to find an answer for a problem that keeps me busy for some months now. 

So, please Fibaro guru help me before i'm throw away everything. 

 

I want to switch one light on and off. This light has multiple push switches. Not standard On/Off switches, but switches that give an impulse to the EPN 520. And this relais is turning the lamp on and off.  I want all this being handled remotely by a Single switch 2 and keep of course the other switches. (see attached Schema). 

 

I already saw an item on this to replace EPN520 completely, but this is not the target. 

 

I already tried the following without any succes:  in both cases the Single Switch 2 is included well ( i can hear him ticking). I also changed parameter 20 from 2 to 1. 

 

1:

Seperate power wires connected to L and N to power the Single switch 2

I Connected the Incoming wire (Live wire) from the puls switch to the second left L on the Single switch 2

Connected the outgoing wire from the puls to the S1 on the Single switch 2

--> Normally puls switches are working as before. No impact remotely.

2: 

Seperate power wires connected to L and N to power the Single switch 2

I Connected the Incoming wire (Live wire) from the puls switch to S1 on the Single switch 2

And connected the outgoing wire from the puls to the Q on the Single switch 2

--> Normal puls switches don't work anymore. Can change remotely, but once on stays on. 

 

Can someone give me the correct Scheme? 

Do I have to do this in another way? Relay switch? Dimmer 2? ( I do not want to dim the lights!!)

 

Help !!!!!!!

 

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Edited by Frankhermie
small change
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I can try to help... But first, where is the light? Is it mandatory (by building regulations) to have a double pole contact?

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  • Hi 

    Please login or register to see this link.

     .  Yes it is in rooms like Bathroom, kitchen , garage  where there could be a possible contact with water.  In my case the light is in the bathroom :(

     

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    In that case, I'm afraid aI have to agree with this:

     

    37 minutes ago, Frankhermie said:

    I already saw an item on this to replace EPN520 completely, but this is not the target. 

     

    I think the main problem is an unfortunate combination of issues you have.

     

    I would try this, but I already know this would not make me happy.

     

    If you disconnect the wire on A1 (on the EPN) and instead connect it to S1, I expect your FGS to work as expected. You should be able to control the relay remotely or by clicking a switch. Now you can connect the output of the FGS to A1, so the EPN should respond to "clicks" of your FGS. Your FGS has to emulate a push-button, because that is what the EPN responds to... You can do that with a timer in code or by setting a parameter.

     

    Unfortunately, you do not get any feedback from the EPN, because it is an impulse relay (aka latching, but there are different forms of latching so I prefer "impulse"). So you cannot determine if the light is on or off. I guess that is why someone told you to get rid of the EPN.

     

    You could replace the EPN with your FGS, but that is illegal and considered dangerous... To comply, you would have to add another relay. So we are back to where we started...

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    Hi, as far as i can see:

    -If you connect SS2 to the EPN pins 2/4 - you will lose control by other switches (if SS2=OFF, the light will remain OFF)

    -if you connect SS2 next to the other switches and connect just L/N/Q (not S1) and make it send an impulse (may be auto off in 1 second?) But this way you will have the SS2 always OFF (in fibaro widgets, and cant measure power offcourse)

    -if you connect SS2 to 1/A1 and connect all the rest switchees to S1, will be also not good with widget and power meters.

    The only correct way is to make a latch A1 to L (EPN = always ON), and connect SS2 output Q to EPN input L (switches connect to SS2)

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    18 minutes ago, jack.daniels said:

    The only correct way is to make a latch A1 to L (EPN = always ON)

     

    Thank you for chiming in! Unfortunately I do not understand why you would permanently energise the coil of this relay... did I miss something? Maybe you think the EPN520 is an ordinary relay? It is not. EPN520 is a "step" aka "impulse" relay. Energising the coil *toggles* the output. When you de-energise then energise again, it toggles to the opposite state. 

     

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    "Latching relays operate when impulsed by a signal voltage. The impulse can be provided via a pushbutton or pushswitch. The first pulse operates the relay and latches it to its set (opposite) state, the next operation of the pushbutton returns the relay to its reset (original) state."

     

    Also, please bear in mind the relay must be double pole, because of this (mandatory in Belgium):

     

    43 minutes ago, Frankhermie said:

    Hi 

    Please login or register to see this link.

     .  Yes it is in rooms like Bathroom, kitchen , garage  where there could be a possible contact with water.  In my case the light is in the bathroom :(

     

     

    Edit: does anyone want me to explain why we have this requirement?

    Edited by petergebruers
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  • Inquirer
  • Hi Peter, thanks for your effort in trying to answer my problem. I have "druk"- or "puls" switches everywhere in my home. So it seems that I have a problem and will not be able to install the Fibaro switches, relay switches or dimmers? 

    Or is there another solution? 

    Would there have been a solution if this was a normal double pole light switch  or a one pole push switch? 

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    42 minutes ago, Frankhermie said:

    Hi Peter, thanks for your effort in trying to answer my problem. I have "druk"- or "puls" switches everywhere in my home. So it seems that I have a problem and will not be able to install the Fibaro switches, relay switches or dimmers? 

    Or is there another solution? 

    Would there have been a solution if this was a normal double pole light switch  or a one pole push switch? 

    I have "pulse" switches too, I actually recommend them. The problem is not the Fibaro relay, it is the EPN520...

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    Your question confuses me. I connect them as shown in the manual, just like any other switch. The "'switch" symbol depicts any number of *parallel* momentary switches. Limited by capacitance introduced by wiring, which limits the total length of wires going so S1 or S2, but that is for another topic.

     

    Do you have a latching relay on all of your light circuits? For single-pole circuits, simply remove the latching relay.

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

     

    Edited by petergebruers
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  • Hi Jack.  when the Push switch ( E in the diagram) is pushed curent goes through the switch and position of the "impulse" relais (EPN) is changed. (for example into Open).Once you push the Push switch again the "impulse" relais (EPN) gets current again and the position is changed again (for example into closed).So each time you push the EPN remains in the same position untill you have pushed it again. 

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    3 minutes ago, Frankhermie said:

    switch and position of the "impulse" relais (EPN) is changed

    Yes, I understand

    If the light was ON (EPN in position ON) and u disconnect the L from EPN, will it remember it's ON state? Or after restoring the power it will be OFF?

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  • Yes, if its ON and you disconnect the L,  it stays in ON. And if you then restore the power it will still be ON.  

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    If you only need a short pulse from FGS, try setting parameter 12 (auto off) to 0.1 or 0.2 seconds.
    FGS will then turn off automatically.
    And you can restore parameter 20 because it is only used for physical switches.

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    1 minute ago, RH_Dreambox said:

    If you only need a short pulse from FGS, try setting parameter 12 (auto off) to 0.1 or 0.2 seconds.
    FGS will then turn off automatically.
    And you can restore parameter 20 because it is only used for physical switches.

    Thanks. This suggestion has been made before(in this topic). That is not the problem. The issue is: how are you going to know if the light is on or off?

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    Just now, RH_Dreambox said:

    Thank you for the information, I have missed it :oops::oops::oops:

    No problem! I think these latching relays are not very common. I think this is maybe the third question in 5 years (on this forum, that I am aware off)...

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    1 hour ago, Frankhermie said:

    Anyone else any ideas????

    If the EPN has memory, you need to set it to ON, then connect this way:

    Please login or register to see this image.

    Setup SS2 for momentary switch mode.

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    20 minutes ago, jack.daniels said:

    If the EPN has memory, you need to set it to ON, then connect this way:

    Please login or register to see this link.

    Setup SS2 for momentary switch mode.

     

    I do not understand what you are trying to do. I can see only one explanation why this happens... Are we talking about the same EPN relay? I think we are definitely not referring to the same thing... Why connect A1 to A2 and N? What does that do? There is a coil between A1 and A2 and you shorted it. Why short that coil? Then connect it to N, but why? A1 and 12 are "floating" so why connect it to N?

     

    EDIT: SORRY I AM BLIND... You did not do that... OK so you force the relay ON. Then you still have this issue: the relay is connect to a light in a bathroom. By LAW both L and N must be disconnected. You only disconnect L. Does anybody want me to explain why we have this law?

     

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

    BTW your schematic is almost the same as mine with one difference: you leave the relay in place... I remove it. This is allowed for all non-humid rooms. So we seem to agree on something...

     

    From my previous post:

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

     

     

    Edited by petergebruers
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