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  • 4

Random switch failures on Double Switch 2 (FGS-223)


PedroRS

Question

Hi guys,

 

From 1 year ago I have installed in may home five FGS-223 controlling all light and ALL of them are having the same issue.

Randomly they don't react to physical switch request. It means I manually turn off or on the light and the status is not changed (and no noise form the relay).

Sometimes second attempt is working fine but few time I need to switch tree times...

 

All are working as:

Switch Type 2 - toggle switch (device changes status when switch changes status)

Operating mode - Standard operation

 

Other configurations are basically default ones since I'm not controlling scenes, etc.

I'm using Zipato controlled, but it's directly controlled by the module as far as I know...

 

Any idea about the root cause?

Thanks for your support !!

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  • 0
  • Inquirer
  • They are aware of this issue... It's sure.

    Last firmware upgrade (3.3) is even including a modification related exactly with this issue ("Fixed inputs issue when bistable switched are used).

    But even if it's maybe minimizing a little bit the problem with a software workaround (frankly speaking it's very difficult to quantify), it's really not fixing the issue as they mention.

    Maybe they update the hardware and current units are not having this issue... or even maybe we're just unlucky and our units comed from an specific batch...

     

    Really unlucky from my side since I bought 5 units (they are not cheap),  and also my controller is a Zipatile (Zipato is a really pathetic company).

    Anyway I'm on the way to migrate all the system step by step.

     

    By the way, If some of you really like home automations, you shall try Home Assistant as a controller. The quantity of supported platforms are obscene! And the price of the connectable devices choosing wifi or zigbee protocol instead of zwave are really low.

     

    Regards.

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    Just out of interest do you know when your were manufactured? Mine were Dec 2018 and Jan 2019. I have nine of them and an HC Lite 2, so it might turn out to be quite and expensive mistake, not including the labour.

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  • Inquirer
  • I bought mines on Feb 2017. Maybe the batch is quite big ?.

    One on the test I want to perform is to change one of the bistable switches (all of them are using them) to a momentary one and test how it works.

    Anyway after these years I used to it... (my wife no... ?).

     

    Dec 2018... maybe you can execute the warranty... but I don't know if there is a way to obtain a refund.

     

    As I mention chinese ones are not facing this issue, but I don't think Fibaro controller can support them.

    One of the things I learned after these years, is not to buy a controller from a maker that are also selling own devices (same as Zipato). They focused only in their hardware so we are caught.

    So I jumped to Home Assistant. Even if the idea is to use only zwave, maybe Eedomus is good alternative.

     

    *NOTE: Zipato is selling own devices, but almost are chinese ones. They just change the label, the box and the instruction manual. Isn't it pathetic?

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    I have exactly the same issue and the support from fibaro was just update the firmware which it is not helpful.
    In my opinion it is a hardware issue that they will be not be able to fix by software

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    I’ve running the latest firmware, and I still see the problem. They have offered that I can send them back to check they are OK, but I am struggling to bother taking them out of the wall as it happens perhaps once a week. And they have to be sent back to Poland - I live in England. Given that it happens on all my switches either ether has some major manufacturing fault, or much more likely it’s a firmware issue. I could understand if it was happening to one or two of the units, but it’s happened on all 9 of them at one time or another.

     

    I think they are in denial about it. I’ve been asked about how they are wired, but I have confirmed they were all installed by a qualified electrician.

     

    i originally bought Fibaro because I saw all the compatibility issues and figured having the same brand devices would get me the most reliable setup. To be fair it’s been much better than previous combinations, but at the moment I just see them in denial of this issue.
     

    i like the hub as it provides a simple access that HomeBridge can talk to locally, but I’m thinking of use AeoTec double switches instead.

     

    Just out of interest when did you buy yours?

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    I joined just to say I have been experiencing the same thing on the 2 units I bought in February 2019. 90% of the time they work perfectly but both of them suffer the same thing where pressing the physical toggle switch has no reaction. I then press it again with no reaction again then pretty much without fail moving the physical switch for a 3rd time works as expected. 

     

    Again no issue turning the lights on and off via the smartthings app. The fibaro module just seems to have an issue recognising the switch has been pressed sometimes. It is very intermittent with no rhyme or reason to when or why it will do it. 

     

    Hopefully this will be fixed via a firmware update soon. I'll have to buy myself a fibaro hub to do the firmware update if that is the case. Bit of a pain but if it stops the wife nagging at me because "the lights are not working again" it's worth the hassle and cost

    Edited by Robb
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    Just thought I would mention I have 5 other FGD-212 (dimmer 2) modules installed around the home and these all react perfectly to the physical switch on and off commands perfectly every time. 

     

    The dimmer 2's are fantastic and the 2 wire install is very useful. If they were a double module like the FGS--223 then I would use them over the switch any day. The night mode dimming and soft start put them into another league over the basic switch, with the correct parameters you can use them as a basic on / off device too.

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    Hi,

     

    I have a little more news on this. For a while I have been trying to persuade Fibaro they have an issue, they went through all the normal suggestions you would expect, with no success. They stated that there were no known issues and so I shouldn’t wait for a firmware update.

     

    Given that this happens to all my units this means that either they have a manufacturing/design or firmware issue.

     

    Obviously without proof they were not about to say there was an issue, and let’s be honest I suspect 99.9% of issues are related to user mistakes. One of my units was sent back and the relays replaced. I didn’t think this was going to help, unless all the units I have (ordered from different places) were broken, but I went along with it.

     

    When the unit was returned I didn’t pair it to the HC and instead wired it to a very simple test rig. I videoed the test and was able to show the same problem.

     

     

     

     

    It’s a boring watch so skip to 2 mins in. I’m now dealing with a very helpful guy in their service department called Daniel who is trying to reproduce the problem, which hopefully won’t be too tricky, given the video above.

     

    Hopefully this is a firmware issue, and not something hardware related.

     

    Regards

     

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    8 minutes ago, Andrew Lockhart said:

    Hi,

     

    I have a little more news on this. For a while I have been trying to persuade Fibaro they have an issue, they went through all the normal suggestions you would expect, with no success. They stated that there were no known issues and so I shouldn’t wait for a firmware update.

     

    Given that this happens to all my units this means that either they have a manufacturing/design or firmware issue.

     

    Obviously without proof they were not about to say there was an issue, and let’s be honest I suspect 99.9% of issues are related to user mistakes. One of my units was sent back and the relays replaced. I didn’t think this was going to help, unless all the units I have (ordered from different places) were broken, but I went along with it.

     

    When the unit was returned I didn’t pair it to the HC and instead wired it to a very simple test rig. I videoed the test and was able to show the same problem.

     

     

     

     

    It’s a boring watch so skip to 2 mins in. I’m now dealing with a very helpful guy in their service department called Daniel who is trying to reproduce the problem, which hopefully won’t be too tricky, given the video above.

     

    Hopefully this is a firmware issue, and not something hardware related.

     

    Regards

     

     

    Keep up the good work hopefully you may get to the bottom of it and sort it for us all. I can't believe fibaro don't know about this issue!! Surely it happens to themselves on their own units!

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    56 minutes ago, Andrew Lockhart said:

    Hopefully this is a firmware issue, and not something hardware related.

     

    99% its related to hardware. I have used Double Switch 2 for 1 year flowlessly and then started to skip toggles. In a wile it was not possible ti turn ON or OFF at all. Even 10 times was fail.

    Unfortunately it was not under warranty so I had no chance to send it back. I got new one. And you know what? 

    Another year passed - and its SAME ISSUE. Like it happen before, not it takes 3-5 toggles to turn OFF

    I think its related to GPIO input current which used for S1/S2 inputs.

    I have 2 units now. And i can send it to Fibaro for tests

    Also I realised its temperature dependant. If you disconnect relay from the main power and give it a rest - it will work fine... some time :)

    Then back to fail state

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  • I can’t believe they don’t know about it neither.

    ALL my devices are having same issue issue even they are quite old (Feb ‘17).

    What I could never confirm (all my units are installed and my priority is to change technology due to zwave high price (even Chinese)) is if they are failing same working as in momentary switch mode. Maybe some one can chancre switch type and about the issue.

     

    Robb, good work. Please update here if you have new information.

     

    Pedro.-

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    55 minutes ago, PedroRS said:

    I can’t believe they don’t know about it neither.

    Offcourse they do know. I was sent detailed reports with video attached too.

    To confirm HW issue means they will have to recall some part (or even all) of Switch 2 devices.

    So, do not expect for a fast solution. Probably, humans will land on the Mars faster ;) 

    So, currently the workaround is to jump Double Switch 1 or one of competitior relays (CH, AEON...)

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    It might be that Fibaro means SW update of the switch and not HC2 firmware.

    The problem could be the switch bounce time.

    All mechanical switches generate some "bounce". That is, for every time they are switched, they actually open and close their contacts several times before settling down to their new position. For normal switches, this can last from as little as a fraction of a millisecond (ms), to as long as 50 ms.

    I think that what Fibaro need to fix in software.

    I don't know if it possible for you to perform same experiment, but somehow to reduce mechanical bounce ( TRIAC or any other solution)

    Just an idea...

     

    Edited by cag014
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    5 hours ago, cag014 said:

    The problem could be the switch bounce time.

    Bouncing failure can affect blinking before set to new position. But not skipping new position at all.

    This issue is HW related and unfortunately I have no skills to locate it.

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    Yes, it’s a bit disappointing that they didn’t know about it, but I can image that when supporting customers there are so many variables that it’s hard to zero down on something and not everyone is going to sit there like I did and video a test.

     

    i think it was the fact that I videoed the test on a unit they have just sent me without pairing it to my system, In complete isolation forced them to think there might be a real issue. In most other situations I suspect there are too many variables and their unconscious bias would have been to blame something else. 
     

    I’m just hoping that I have not found a different issue. Obviously my test is slightly contrived, but hopefully they have the same root cause....


    if other people have reported the issue, sent videos etc then reply with the support case numbers and links to videos etc. If you haven’t opened up a support case yet then do so and reference this thread etc.

     

    10 hours ago, Robb said:

     

    Keep up the good work hopefully you may get to the bottom of it and sort it for us all. I can't believe fibaro don't know about this issue!! Surely it happens to themselves on their own units!

     

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    7 hours ago, cag014 said:

    It might be that Fibaro means SW update of the switch and not HC2 firmware.

    The problem could be the switch bounce time.

    All mechanical switches generate some "bounce". That is, for every time they are switched, they actually open and close their contacts several times before settling down to their new position. For normal switches, this can last from as little as a fraction of a millisecond (ms), to as long as 50 ms.

    I think that what Fibaro need to fix in software.

    I don't know if it possible for you to perform same experiment, but somehow to reduce mechanical bounce ( TRIAC or any other solution)

    Just an idea...

     


    I did try and link up the equivalent AeoTec double switch, but I couldn’t get it to reliably update the state on the HCLite when I flicked the switch. I think i set up the parameters correctly. I suspect at CES2020 there will be a few more hubs announced, all I want is one with a local api that can be plugged into HomeBridge. My current setup works really well, with the exception of this issue.

     

    Wouldn’t it be nice if they updated their HC firmware with some templates for AeoTec devices. It’s almost like they don’t want to because it’s a different company. My understanding is that the standards for series 700 ZWave have some kind of auto setup, so it will be interesting to see how they respond to that when Fibaro have to release 700 devices and hubs.

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    8 hours ago, jack.daniels said:

    So, currently the workaround is to jump Double Switch 1

     

    What does this mean? I am assuming this involves turning the switch into a single switch control which is not something I can do.

     

    I can see earlier in the thread that you mentioned that changing the module to recognise the switch position resolved the issue. I find this really annoying to use, my wife even more so as in a 2 way situation we would actually have more false switch presses than we do at the moment

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    Andrew I do get that it may be difficult to pin point different people's issues as being an actual fault, because as you say there are so many variables. 

     

    Surely the fibaro guys have this tech and switches at home though and experience it first hand! It must be as frustrating for them as it is for us. I would just expect anyone who develops / offers technical support to use the technology day to day

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    30 minutes ago, Robb said:

    I can see earlier in the thread that you mentioned that changing the module to recognise the switch position resolved the issue

    I was replaced the switches from bistable to momentary. It had temporary effect. Now I realise its just because it was disconnected from main power for some ~30 min or so.

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    That makes sense thanks

     

    Out of interest does anyone know if the single switches FGS-213 share the same fault? I want to put a motion and light sensor in the garage that will turn on the main lights but don't want the same problem with the single switch as I have with the doubles when using the physical switch. Thanks

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