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How much the valve is open (Fibaro Heat Controller)


speedy

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On 11/20/2017 at 1:35 PM, TRicky said:

Today I installed my first Heat Controller FGT-001 and it is great!

 

Ive installed it to with external sensor, and its really great! (replacing z-wave danfoss)

Looking at room temperature (bedroom) up and down over several days its really accurate and its improved sleeping with constant temperature.

Comparing it with outdoor temperature its really fun seeing how it affects room temp and how the Heat controller responds.

 

Have now ordered more to equip every room :-) 

 

[Feature request]

I miss a feature though, is it possible (after calibration) too see how much the valve is open?

I did look trough /docs/ but could find a value of this.

 

0 to 100% or a simple value from 0-100 would be fantastic to se how much the valve/actuator (or radiator) is open.

 

For short: Actuator currently open xx%

 

 

Other than that, great piece of hardware so far!

 

Edited by speedy
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Hi @speedy!

 

Thank you for your input : )

 

19 hours ago, speedy said:

[Feature request]

I miss a feature though, is it possible (after calibration) too see how much the valve is open?

I did look trough /docs/ but could find a value of this.

 

0 to 100% or a simple value from 0-100 would be fantastic to se how much the valve/actuator (or radiator) is open.

 

For short: Actuator currently open xx%

 

I think that you want to unnecesarily overcome the advantage that our Heat Controller has.

 

There is no way to control the valve because you control the temperature. Our smart and learning algorithms will learn and adapt and will open and shut the valve adequately earlier or later.

 

But I'm happy to hear you out and you can give situations, examples, use cases where such setting would be useful.

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  • 53 minutes ago, I.Srodka said:

    I think that you want to unnecesarily overcome the advantage that our Heat Controller has.

    No, i really like the function of "Set and forget" with temperature. Very easy and works very well!

    So no change in the device or how it works.

     

    Quote

    There is no way to control the valve because you control the temperature. Our smart and learning algorithms will learn and adapt and will open and shut the valve adequately earlier or later.

    Yes, that is a very good thing. I do not want to change the behaviour and control the vale.

     

     

    Quote

    But I'm happy to hear you out and you can give situations, examples, use cases where such setting would be useful.

    Ok, here it comes :-) 

     

    My thing is this regarding (information only, not controlling the % of the vale) how much the valve is open:

    It gives more information to "see" how my heating system works and is set up.

    - Is the water temp to high/low?

    - Is the speed of the water in the radiator circuit to high? 

    - Is the radiator valve working properly?

     

    Its also a added feature for Fibaro i think.

    Lets say you set temp to 22 degrees, but after 24h the temp is too low (it never gets to 22) but the valve is open 100% all the time.

    Fibaro can then report: "Temperature in bedroom is too low and valve has been open fully for 24h, please check your radiator"

    So its an extended function for the device and Fibaro heating.

     

    And its also a way to fine tune your heating system:

     

    Lets say i cant get 23 degrees in the room, there can be some things that affect that. 

    Is the valve open fully?

    - If yes then i know the valve is working and is open fully so there must be a problem with the heating system

     

    I have set 23 degrees (and the room is 23) but the valve is open 100% but its only 15 degrees outside?

    - If yes, well then the radiator water temperature is not high enough and needs to be turned up.

    There is no room for colder weather.

     

    Is the vale open 20% and its -10 outside?

    -If yes then my radiator water temperature is to high and needs to be lower and/or i can turn down the speed of the circulation in the radiator cirquit.

     

    Conclusion:

    So, i don't want to change how to control the device, i think its very easy and it will only complicate things.

    (although i can see for hardcore fans that some might want that but not me)

     

    I only think that the information regarding how many % the valve is open will enhance the user experiance and functionality of the device and information regarding the heating system in the house. 

    Being able to fine tune the heating system will save you money in the end.

    Edited by speedy
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    Eurotronik Spirit can report this, unfortunately Fibaro cant display it yet.

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    1 hour ago, speedy said:

    I have set 23 degrees (and the room is 23) but the valve is open 100% but its only 15 degrees outside?

    - If yes, well then the radiator water temperature is not high enough and needs to be turned up.

    There is no room for colder weather.

     

    Is the vale open 20% and its -10 outside?

    -If yes then my radiator water temperature is to high and needs to be lower and/or i can turn down the speed of the circulation in the radiator cirquit.

     

    That would be interesting.

     

    My boiler controller exposes even more: target water temperature, actual water temperature, corrected temperature(s) taking into account some thermal constants... But OK, let's start with the basics. If I'm not mistaken, there are 2 sensors in the FGT (like Danfoss valves), one probably close to the valve to measure the opening of the valve. I'm merely guessing that, I'm not going to prise open my precious new device ;-)

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    5 hours ago, petergebruers said:

     

    That would be interesting.

     

    My boiler controller exposes even more: target water temperature, actual water temperature, corrected temperature(s) taking into account some thermal constants... But OK, let's start with the basics. If I'm not mistaken, there are 2 sensors in the FGT (like Danfoss valves), one probably close to the valve to measure the opening of the valve. I'm merely guessing that, I'm not going to prise open my precious new device ;-)

    i guess you use an opentherm gateway to see all those values?

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    No, Peter is using a Viessmann :)  And it is correct that the boiler does give all that information.  Correlated with the radiator valves open/close percentage  one can adjust the boiler heating curves better. 

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    Hi guys,

     

    What I did, is setting Fibaro TRVs to off and full on via a scene script, depending on whenever there is call for heat for a zone and boiler is switched on.

    That did the trick for bypassing TRV's "brain".

    Good think is, that Fibaro TRVs reacts fast on commands.

     

    Working well, so far 2nd week :) 

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    On 19-12-2017 at 12:24 PM, speedy said:

    No, i really like the function of "Set and forget" with temperature. Very easy and works very well!

    So no change in the device or how it works.

     

    Yes, that is a very good thing. I do not want to change the behaviour and control the vale.

     

     

    Ok, here it comes :-) 

     

    My thing is this regarding (information only, not controlling the % of the vale) how much the valve is open:

    It gives more information to "see" how my heating system works and is set up.

    - Is the water temp to high/low?

    - Is the speed of the water in the radiator circuit to high? 

    - Is the radiator valve working properly?

     

    Its also a added feature for Fibaro i think.

    Lets say you set temp to 22 degrees, but after 24h the temp is too low (it never gets to 22) but the valve is open 100% all the time.

    Fibaro can then report: "Temperature in bedroom is too low and valve has been open fully for 24h, please check your radiator"

    So its an extended function for the device and Fibaro heating.

     

    And its also a way to fine tune your heating system:

     

    Lets say i cant get 23 degrees in the room, there can be some things that affect that. 

    Is the valve open fully?

    - If yes then i know the valve is working and is open fully so there must be a problem with the heating system

     

    I have set 23 degrees (and the room is 23) but the valve is open 100% but its only 15 degrees outside?

    - If yes, well then the radiator water temperature is not high enough and needs to be turned up.

    There is no room for colder weather.

     

    Is the vale open 20% and its -10 outside?

    -If yes then my radiator water temperature is to high and needs to be lower and/or i can turn down the speed of the circulation in the radiator cirquit.

     

    Conclusion:

    So, i don't want to change how to control the device, i think its very easy and it will only complicate things.

    (although i can see for hardcore fans that some might want that but not me)

     

    I only think that the information regarding how many % the valve is open will enhance the user experiance and functionality of the device and information regarding the heating system in the house. 

    Being able to fine tune the heating system will save you money in the end.

    Very interesting idea! 

     

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    • 2 weeks later...

    I would like to have a readout if the Heat Control is trying to actually heat. Based on that I can write a script to pull all HC's and decide if it is necessary to put on the boiler. 

    Now I have to do this on comparing actual and requested temperature in the room, but it would be really nice if I am able to determine this on a readout of the HC itself.

     

    Is this possible with the HC?

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    20 minutes ago, oajungen said:

    I would like to have a readout if the Heat Control is trying to actually heat.

     

    Can you define "trying to heat"? If you set the valve to 22 °C it it is trying to get its sensor to 22 °C so you already know the target. If you mean "the amount of valve opening" you and I agree with the topic starter. So I must be misunderstanding your definition of "trying to heat".

     

    Let's get some things straight.

     

    • The FGT is a THERMOSTAT. It does not use your controller, to regulate temperature. You tell the FGT to go to 22 °C and it does that for you. It does not need a controller or a temperature reference, nor does it need a room thermostat and you also do not have to buy the external probe...
    • The thermostat can either use its internal sensor or the special extra bluetooth low energy "button" external probe. The extra sensor can be in a more optimal place: the right height, no direct sunlight, nearer to the spot where you want to control temperature. With this probe, the FGT starts reporting temperature too. It reports to the valve every 10 minutes. To conserve power and reduce network traffic, the FGT only sends temperature to the controller every 2-3 hours or when the temperature readings differ by 0.5-1 degree from the last report.
    • You can turn the knob to change the set point. No magic involved. For instance. Turn the ring until it displays "cyan" and it will regulate the valve, until the temperature averages 18 °C. It does not need the extra sensor, because there is one (actually two) and the device itself has an algorithm to go to the set temperature. It also does not really need a controller, all magic is performed by the micro-controller onboard.
    • You get more interesting possibilities, with a Z-Wave controller. You can send temperature settings to the controller via your app, or using the browser interface. Like: "go to 23 °C for 4 hours". Because it is a FLIRS (frequently listening routing slave) device, roughly one second after you change the temperature, it will take into account your new target value! So there is no "wake up" interval (and delay) like ordinary battery operated device.
    • So now you have a "remote control" for your thermostat. It still does not need your controller or a temperature sensor to control the temperature. Sometimes, it is more convenient to use your phone or a tablet. But it's not real automation (yet).
    • The next step would be to use the heating panel. The heating panel is nothing but a scheduler. It contains time/temperature settings. And all it does is send the schedule to the valve. Again, the FGT is fully autonomous after it receives the schedule. But now you can override the schedule by turning the knob, or by using the app. You get manual override and holiday mode as a bonus. You need to understand the concept of zones and rooms and maybe take into account that one FGT remote sensor can send temperature
    • If this still isn't enough control, you can use lua to send a set-point to the valve. even now you do not need an extra temperature measurement...
    • All it needs is... a steady source of hot water. And this brings us to the issue of room thermostat and boiler control. The boiler should take care of the hot water problem. It has a boiler thermostat, and possibly some settings and maybe an external probe. You see, I do not mention a "room thermostat" when I talk about boiler control, this is intentional. Please read on.

     

    20 minutes ago, oajungen said:

    Based on that I can write a script to pull all HC's and decide if it is necessary to put on the boiler. 

     

    You probably do not need such a script.

     

    Is your boiler less than about 20 years old, and do you already have Thermostatic Radiator Valves on all radiators? Then you almost certainly do not need a room thermostat, so please remove your room thermostat. You also do not need scripts and relays to control your boiler. This is a general advice. It *always* surprises people. It seems like magic, no boiler control and no room thermostat, yet the idea behind it is simple... Please give it some thought then fully dismiss the idea if you do not like it. Like electrical systems, heating systems come in to many variants. To give 100% accurate advice, you'll have to tell a lot more and I cannot answer all questions, that's what a heating specialist is for... Also, you do whatever you want so below you'll find scripts for boiler control anyway.

     

    Boiler control is a tough topic... I recommend you read a few of my posts in the topics below, then continue the discussion there... Or search the forum, there is even more to find out about heating systems...

     

     

     

    And regarding the external sensor:

     

    Edited by petergebruers
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    Hi,

    I have read a lot of posts recently about this subject and based on that I don't want the boiler to burn constantly with a bypass. In my previous setup I was using a Nest thermostat and based on the post below I would like to keep using this thermostat with opentherm management of the boiler. If this isn't stable I am going to use a on/off switch with the Secure SSR303 or Fibaro FIB_FIBEFGS-212. One reason for this choice is that I am not able to use thermostatic valves in our bathrooms unfortunately.

     

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    Currently I am able to manage the Nest thermostat from Fibaro with the scripts provided. At this moment I still have to say thank you for this scripts, but will do so in a short while.

    I still have to make a Lua script for polling the thermostats if they need heating (valve is open). For me it is enough to know if the valve is open, but a percentage >0 is also perfect.

     

    So the question I have is.... If it is possible to check if the valve of the HC is open or closed. If it is open it needs heating from te boiler if it is closed it doesn't. A script will poll all HC's every 5 minutes and if one of them needs heating it gives a value of 1 to a global variable. If the variable is 1 at the end it will raise the Nest 1 degree above current temp, otherwise lover the temp with 1 degree.

     

    If checking if the valve is open/closed is not possible I have to compare the temperature of the room with the targetlevel of the HC's, but this sounds like a workaround to me. 

     

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    14 minutes ago, oajungen said:

    One reason for this choice is that I am not able to use thermostatic valves in our bathrooms unfortunately.

     

    Do you mean Z-Wave TRV? Or plain mechanical TRV? It seems a bit odd to me your house has TRVs on all radiators, but not in your bathroom(s). But of course, every heating system is different, so there might be a perfectly logical explanation. Also, are you sure you do not have a bypass?

     

    If you do not have a TRV, your heating system it might predate the use of TRVs. In that case, it uses this simple logic: if all radiators are properly sized, and all valves are open, all rooms should get the same temperature. This is how it was done before TRVs were used. In this setup, you really want to have a room thermostat. Because the room thermostat will control the amount of heat produced to get the average room temperature. If it is cold, it will turn on the heating more often. Now, because we assume all radiators are in proportion to the heat loss of the room, all rooms (in a perfect world) get the same proportion of heating. In theory, all rooms "follow the main room thermostat".

     

    Let me try to give an electrical equivalent. A heating system without TRVs is like a room with one dimmer (room thermostat), connected to 2 light bulbs (radiators). If you dim one bulb (room with main thermostat), the other one tracks the first one (bathroom). If you want different light output, you can installer different size bulbs (different radiator size, or a simple valve so you can insert some "resistance" to paraphrase an electrical equivalent). If your heating system is old it might be like this. I think people got used to this old system... You get reasonable control it the room with the main thermostat and it is in this room you live 90% of the time. Bedrooms are cold and bathrooms are hot and people turn the knobs when it gets too extreme. This scenario cannot work well without a main thermostat. Although purely theoretically it is possible... If you have an outdoor probe. You can calculate (or should I say "estimate") the heat demand by calculating the temperature difference between a cold wall (external probe) and the desired room temperature. Then you set your boiler to produce hot water of a certain temperature. It is a bit like ohms law. If you want a certain light output of a bulb (temperature in your house) and you know the resistance, you can calculate the voltage needed. Old people like me remember they could help there heating system by changing that voltage (aka water temperature) by turning a knob on their boiler.

     

    A heating system with only TRVs is like a dimmer on each light bulb. You get constant supply (hot water), and you can set the light to any level (thermostat set point), in any room independently. If you turn off both dimmers (set thermostat to 5 °C) the current stops (the boiler does not keep heating until it explodes). This is the solution I use and recommend (assuming you already have mechanical TRVs so your setup is suitable). How hot should that constant supply of water be? It has to be hot enough to heat the rooms, plus some extra because you want a room to heat within a reasonable amount of time. I see no practical electrical equivalent with dimmers of this... But it is a bit like "if we get any voltage between 200 and 260 V AC" we can set the brightness to the level we want. As long as it is reasonably constant, we can get constant brightness. If your voltage is too low, the system cannot regulate. If it is too high, losses increase and you reduce the usable range of your dimmer.

     

    What happens if you combine both systems? So that is a room thermostat plus a TRV on each radiator. That is a dimmer (main thermostat) connected to dimmers in each room (TRVs). It can work, but having 2 control systems cascaded makes control a lot more difficult. Your main dimmer (main thermostat) is the boss. If you set it (too) low, the light will dim in your main room but also in all other rooms. If you want the light to be brighter in one room, you cannot do this. Even when you set the dimmer in that room (TRV) to 100% (valve open)  the main dimmer does not let current pass (your boiler does not turn on). This seems to be the starting point for most users though and they soon realise, something is not quite right with this setup.

     

    So you write a script. If one dimmer is 100% (one valve is open), you need to turn on the main dimmer (boiler). Ok, but then what happens? All dimmers suddenly get more power and lights in all rooms suddenly increase in brightness. So the dimmers (TRVs) have to respond to that. So you dim everything down again. Now you get a bunch of dimmers at any percentage - what is your criterium to turn off the main dimmer (boiler) again? It is possible to make this work, but it is also possible to only use dimmers on the light bulbs, no main dimmer. You can find scripts that measure sensors, apply some logic and open close valves.

     

    I seem to suggest a room thermostat + TRVs cannot work, but that is not true. It can work, because in real life things are grey and not black and white. For instance, your boiler does not go from 0 to 100 % in 0 seconds. Also, your valves do not respond immediately. Also, if you set your room thermostat high enough, it will work, but that is a kind of placebo effect. Think about it. If you have a main dimmer set to 100% (main thermostat set to 25 °C) and then dimmers in each room (TRVs set to 21 °C) then you have effectively removed the main thermostat from the system! So you actually do what I told you to begin with (remove the main thermostat). 

     

    Also, in real life, if your boiler is not older than 20 years, your boiler controller might not be as "stupid" as you think. It might, in fact, decide not to respond to on-off controls at all, to reduce the number of start/stop cycles which (can) cause extra wear and reduce inefficiency, check the manual. It might have intelligent pump control, constant pressure pumps, a bypass, a mixing valve, an external probe and it might also produce tap water, ... Some people have underfloor heating, which is "slow"... I think I can go on for hours. 

     

    I am not talking about intelligent scripts that try to save energy, by guessing what temperature you want in what room at what time. As I understand it, some manufacturers of main thermostats do this. I am skeptical, I bet their claimed savings depend on a very specific comparison. Think about... where do you live? What is the thermal time constant of my room? What is the insulation level? Anyway, I would not buy a main thermostat, for the reasons mentioned above.

     

    I am also not talking about scripts that modify set point or heating schedule. It might make sense to detect if a door is open, then turn off the heating until it is closed again. You might not need a script for that, the FGT already has open window detection. I have not tested this feature yet. But this has nothing to do with boiler control.

     

    16 minutes ago, oajungen said:

    If checking if the valve is open/closed is not possible I have to compare the temperature of the room with the targetlevel of the HC's, but this sounds like a workaround to me. 

     

    It is not possible. And a lot of people use your workaround. If your HC crashes, you have a bug in your script or a reporting problem, you got no heating.

     

    With my post(s), I am only trying to help you... I do not have a room thermostat and I run no script. I can have any temperature in any room at any time. My boiler does not run all the time, it merely produces water at a constant temperature. If the heat demand is low, the boiler simply does not turn on because the water is already hot and stays hot. There is no magic involved. There's no Z-Wave relay connected to my boiler either. I can turn off my HC and still turn the knobs on the valves and I still can get any temperature in any room.

     

    Can you understand... Because my setup is so simple, I see no point in even trying to make a script, or add a relay to my boiler. I really cannot help you with scripting, but if you reread the topics I liked to, you can find scripts! I think the PID script is an interesting one, maybe if you have electrical underfloor heating... BTW Fibaro says the FGT is based on PID and also my boiler is based on (adaptive) PID so you are kind of scripting what already exists...

     

    I reread this topic and I almost sound like a guru. Geez, I am not... Control systems were part of my education, I happen to have a fairly recent fairly intelligent boiler (Viessman, oil burner, mixing valve, external probe, tap water. I think I bought it in 2003) and I experimented a lot with heating and temperature sensing. I try to read everything I can on this forum. Maybe that is why I sound like an old schoolmaster. I am sorry about that...

     

    I wish you good luck with your setup, and lots of fun with Home Automation, whatever you decide to do!

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    Hi Peter,

    Thank you for your explaining reply! Our boiler is only a year old and sophisticated considering pomp pressure, heating, etc. Not sure if it has a bypass installed, but I can ask our installer. We are using a Vaillant ecoTEC plus VHR NL 35-38/5-5 HR boiler. If I am able to install a Heat Controller on all radiators and we do have a bypass, I prefer your solution because it is simple and stable.

     

    But as I understood from our installer space/room is an issue for installing the Heat Controllers in our bathrooms. I can check again :-).
    If I can't install a proper TRV in our bathrooms, I need to work with scripting unfortunately.

     

    For now I keep running the Nest with the HC with open to the max because the HC's are having issues to deliver a steady temperature. I hope this will be solved soon, so I can go on with changing we heat our home. 

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    @oajungen thank you for reading my post and considering my advice.

     

    12 minutes ago, oajungen said:

    But as I understood from our installer space/room is an issue for installing the Heat Controllers in our bathrooms. I can check again :-)

     

    What do you have right now? No mechanical TRV? I can see a few reasons why your installer says it is impossible. If there's not enough room to mount the head, you might be able to get an angled valve instead of the existing one, giving extra space. Or maybe the valve is in a position where a traditional valve would not work well because of the position of the internal temperature sensor. In that case, you'll have to use the external probe.

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    2 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

    @oajungen thank you for reading my post and considering my advice.

     

     

    What do you have right now? No mechanical TRV? I can see a few reasons why your installer says it is impossible. If there's not enough room to mount the head, you might be able to get an angled valve instead of the existing one, giving extra space. Or maybe the valve is in a position where a traditional valve would not work well because of the position of the internal temperature sensor. In that case, you'll have to use the external probe.

     

    The radiators in the bathrooms don't have a TRV at this moment. So I asked if this is possible. Will ask again :-)

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    Many theories, but nothing can beat practice.

     

    Recently I moved to 3 floor house. have 3 children, everyone having own room.

    I was worried about coming heating season.

     

    And here we came. In my opinion every room have proper sized radiators.

    Heating is controlled by central thermostat in living room on first floor.

    So far so good.

     

    As temperatures goes down, me and my wife became like ambulance between rooms, controlling mechanical valves.

    We were good at it. As human opinion how temperature was, want to be is better as any software.

    But it became little hard to follow.

    Open windows, doors...Child on school, weekend...

     

    When we went to sleep, we should keep livingroom hot, in order to heat whole house, as central thermostat was downstairs.

    Poor me, sleeping near the radiator...

    Whatever I talk, I was not happy with the current setup. 

    Than I saw the so good advertise of Fibaro TRVs. Cant wait first batch.

     

    I get some. Installed them. Setup setpoint, and was soooo happy.

    My boiler will supply hot water, valves will keep desired room temperature...as advertised...

     

    On first morning, my wife was in the livingroom with her jacket, so were the kids.

    Three radiators, all with fibaro trvs, three of them linked with external sensor.

    One was absolutely cold, second was so-so hot, third was as use to be...It was 23 degrees setpoint, boiler working 2 hours so far, and I has one radiator and a half off!!!

    Temperature has never been 19 degrees, and falling...even with working boiler...so disappointment.

    Give the setup two days more, and what I observe is, that Fibaro TRVs with external sensors, completely failed.

    My setup with "smart" TRVs was even worse.

     

    Than I read, that every 5 years we should change mechanical thermobot, sitting behind TRVs. Even best has 5 years of working as expected. Not a big deal if you move and tune your mechanical TRV on hand, but how is it with "clever" one?!

    Here I thought, in middle of heating season, that I cant change them. Even I change them I have no guarantee, that TRVs will work as expected.

    Still I didnt know if it is TRV software or mechanical problem.

     

    About Fibaro TRV's open window detection.

    I tested it. Several times. They are quite noisy operating, and even after half an hour of opened window just above the TRV did not make it move.

    So I doubt it works as expected either. Parameters did not reported, that Window is opened also, as I read in manuals they should.

    What I thought than, it should be just a big advertisement.

     

    Good thing is they are FLIR and I can operate them well.

    If mechanics are not well, and TRVs not operating as expected, at least I can full close/open them using scripts.

     

    And here I came.

     

    I really wished all setups were universal, and work for everyone.

    But in practice in did not. What works for one, do not work for other.

    When mechanics and "smart" software, complete independent from each other should operate in sync...it is just a good wish it will...

     

    So, in conclusion, there is no single receipt for all men's good. Just everyone should find its own with the tools it have already. I already did.

     

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    12 hours ago, chapa said:

    We were good at it. As human opinion how temperature was, want to be is better as any software.

    But it became little hard to follow.

    Open windows, doors...Child on school, weekend...

     

    I'm so glad you mention this!

     

    I think this is a bit of a stretch of the topic "How much the valve is open (Fibaro Heat Controller)" though you could say we need this kind of diagnostics and if want to understand all possible parameters, we also do have to understand human nature. 

     

    Yes, HUMANS are the only true "temperature gauges". Controlling room temperature with (better than) 0.5 °C accuracy still won't make our brains happy all the time. Of course, if you cannot control temperature at all the task becomes more difficult, so getting accurate control still makes sense (but does not solve all problems).

     

    It may be an obvious thing to say, but here's a list of things that come to my mind that influence our perception of temperature.

     

    Environmental:

    • Ambient colour (lighting, walls, furniture) and luminance
    • Sources of IR heat (fire, halogen heater).
    • Air flow (either cold or hot)
    • Humidity
    • Air quality (CO2 level)

    Person:

    • Activity level
    • Clothing
    • Mental state: stress, mood, anxiety
    • Age
    • Male/Female
    12 hours ago, chapa said:

    My boiler will supply hot water, valves will keep desired room temperature...as advertised...

     

    Exactly. But the current FGT firmware has a bug, they might get "stuck" until you change the target temperature. Fibaro said they are working on an update.

     

    12 hours ago, chapa said:

    Three radiators, all with fibaro trvs, three of them linked with external sensor.

    One was absolutely cold, second was so-so hot, third was as use to be...It was 23 degrees setpoint, boiler working 2 hours so far, and I has one radiator and a half off!!!

    Temperature has never been 19 degrees, and falling...even with working boiler...so disappointment

     

    You have probably observed this bug I mentioned.

     

    One thing though: the thermostats are independent controllers. Even when you connect them to one external sensor, they still run their own set of parameters. They are not synchronised, because they do not communicate with each other. The sensor sends its measured temperature to all three FGTs but that is all... As far as I understand it (this has not been officially confirmed) the FGTs have a sensor near the back, close to the valve, so they know the water temperature (approximately). I do not have a clue how this temperature is used by the algorithm. But I can say Danfoss LC valves also have two sensors. One near the front for room temperature, one at the back to check the valve.

     

    12 hours ago, chapa said:

    Than I read, that every 5 years we should change mechanical thermobot, sitting behind TRVs. Even best has 5 years of working as expected. Not a big deal if you move and tune your mechanical TRV on hand, but how is it with "clever" one?!

     

    Yes, they do say so but I own mechanical valves that are much older and still work as expected. Which is of course means: they work, but they still are "not accurate at all".

     

    I expect the rechargeable cell to last  about 10 years. With lithium-ion, this is possible. I do not have a clue how long the mechanical part will last. So my crystal ball says FGTs last 5 - 10 years. If we are still around in 2027, we can check if my crystal ball was right.

     

    12 hours ago, chapa said:

    About Fibaro TRV's open window detection.

    I tested it. Several times. They are quite noisy operating, and even after half an hour of opened window just above the TRV did not make it move.

    So I doubt it works as expected either. Parameters did not reported, that Window is opened also, as I read in manuals they should.

    What I thought than, it should be just a big advertisement.

     

    Thank you for reporting this. I wondered if the "open window algorithm" uses the external sensor. If it does, this might explain your observation. I think the "open window algorithm" should use the internal sensor, even when there is an external sensor for temperature control. Or maybe that should be a configuration option. I'm sorry, I am thinking out loud, I have not tested anything regarding window detection yet. But it is a good thing this valve can *report* open window! I love diagnostics! So you can say for sure... it was not triggered in your case!

     

    12 hours ago, chapa said:

    Good thing is they are FLIR and I can operate them well.

    If mechanics are not well, and TRVs not operating as expected, at least I can full close/open them using scripts.

     

    This is indeed a possibility, that did not exist in the pre-FLIR era... Based on my observations and reports from other users, a workaround for the bug could be like this: detect if the room is too hot or too cold, then set the valve to any other value, wait a bit (say 10 seconds), then send back the original value. I haven't tried it, but I noticed the FGT goes back into regulation as soon as you  turn the knob... And others have reported a change over Z-Wave works as well.

     

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    Hi Peter,

     

    you mention a bug, but i am not quite sure what that bug is. i have the following issue.

     

    1 room in my house gets really cold real fast, so this one activates my boiler a lot.(wich is no problem)

    but the FGT in my livingroom is also open, wich shouldn't be open at all, this results in my livingroom becoming like a swedish sauna.

    i manually have to close valve to cool down the room.

     

    is this like the bug you mentioned?

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    3 minutes ago, Daanol said:

    FGT in my livingroom is also open, wich shouldn't be open at all, this results in my livingroom becoming like a swedish sauna.

    i manually have to close valve to cool down the room.

     

    is this like the bug you mentioned?

     

    Indeed, sounds similar to this:

     

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