Using Tridonic LED drivers with Fibrao Dimmer

[Andy Bryant 0]

I'm fitting out a new apartment, and my electrician is planning to use LEDs that aren't themselves dimmable:

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He's planning to add dimmable drivers - with a push-to-dim (switchDIM) mode - Driver LCAI 15W 150mA–400mA ECO slim

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I suspect that this won't work with the Dimmer 2, because the dimmer needs to control the dimming function.  The switchDIM mode in the LED driver is designed to be hooked up to a simple push button.

 

So I think I need to get him to switch to something from the BASIC series that's compatible with a phase-cut dimmer (which is what I'm assuming the dimmer uses).  i.e. one of these:-

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Thoughts?

Edited January 8, 2018 by Andy Bryant

[petergebruers 1,265]

1 hour ago, jakub.jezek said:

Dimmer 2 uses "Phase dimming" if i'm not mistaken (if i'm mistaken, please correct me).

You are correct.

 

1 hour ago, Andy Bryant said:

 

So I think I need to get him to switch to something from the BASIC series that's compatible with a phase-cut dimmer (which is what I'm assuming the dimmer uses).  i.e. one of these:-

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I agree, LCAI is not the right series, as you say the basic LCBI looks good (on paper). I do not own one of these, but the spec says "phase dimming" so that is ok. An issue you might have if the total power is < 50 W (see manual), is it blinks or does not turn off. In that case you need a "bypass 2". To be tested.

[jakub.jezek 353]

Dimmer 2 uses "Phase dimming" if i'm not mistaken (if i'm mistaken, please correct me).

 

So

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and

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should be ok with Dimmer 2, if they can be connected to 230V.

[Andy Bryant 0]

13 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

So

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and

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should be ok with Dimmer 2, if they can be connected to 230V.

 

The datasheet on these LEDs is rather confusing.  It doesn't actually spec the voltage range for the LED... but looking at some of the other lights they have they do spec voltage.  I think where they don't, then I'm assuming we're talking 24V; which means I'm going to need one of the drivers listed. 

 

Looking at the 2018 catalog page for the same light they spec 240V into the driver, and 250mA out of the driver

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[jakub.jezek 353]

OK, now i see that

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is 0-10V. So my suggestion would be for this one could be Fibaro RGBW module with PWM to 0-10 converter (something like this:

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.

 

 

[Andy Bryant 0]

34 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

OK, now i see that

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is 0-10V. So my suggestion would be for this one could be Fibaro RGBW module with PWM to 0-10 converter (something like this:

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.

 

I'm not sure... I think those spec boxes are only when used in conjunction with an appropriate driver module - so to get 1-10V you would need the "LCBI-10-180 Driver Tridonic variation à la phase / 1-10V", in 1-10V mode. 

 

That driver looks like it can be a phase-cut dimmer (by changing the 240V AC input) or 0-10V control signal dimmed (with a constant 240V AC)... 

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.

 

I've asked the installer to get drivers that can be driven by a phase-cut dimmer (not one which only has the included push-button dimming functionality). 

 

When I come to install the fibaro dimmer, if I need it, I'll pop the lights from the ceiling & add the bypass. 

 

A.

[speedy 64]

On 1/8/2018 at 10:20 AM, Andy Bryant said:

I'm fitting out a new apartment, and my electrician is planning to use LEDs that aren't themselves dimmable:

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Thoughts?

 

These are only my own thought and you might want the light to be white for your situation.

So then just ignore my thoughts 

But do take a look at the LED fixtures, Hide a light works great with Fibaro V2 without bypass and has dimmable drivers included with the fixtures.

They also have 3000K fixed LED fixtures.

 

I would not use any 1-10 converter, driver, in between electronics etc.

Use dimmable drivers and dimmer V2, its the best solution and most robust.

Always connect Line and Neutral (L and N) to the dimmer.

 

*I dont know your ceiling height so its difficult to recommend a specific light W and beam angle of the light (36 degrees).

Your lights are 10W and these are 6,7W but you have a beam angle of 45 degrees and these are 36 degrees so you will get almost the same light (but less beam angle regarding distance)

 

As your lights come in 3000 and 4000K the light will be very white.

So when you dim down the light it won't be to "cozy" as halogen lights.

Also a visible LED chip is not fantastic to use in a home environment (not in office ether is what i think)

 

My suggestion is to use "tune" LED lights. These lights gets more yellow as you lower the light (like halogen).

Looks really good and Hidealite works really well with Dimmer 2 without bypass (even 1 spotlight, i have tried)

After auto configuration of the dimmer V2, go and adjust the low % of the dimmer, i have installations where 1% works fine with these lights.

 

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They also have the same tune chip for light under the uppers in the kitchen or where space is really limited (16mm).

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And finally, if you want a "one for all" super driver (can handle almost anything) dimmable on the primary side (230V) then this might be an option:

(12, 24 and 28V) and constant DC current (350, 500, 550, 700 and 750 mA) And can also be linked with sync cable.

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Edited January 11, 2018 by speedy

[petergebruers 1,265]

@speedy thanks for sharing. Interesting links. Like you, I do not like point sources and I am a fan of halogen light or LEDS that simulate it. I like "Philips warm glow" for that reason. I agree with your your post, though colour temperature might be a bit personal too. I also own three LED strips so I can tune colour...

[speedy 64]

1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

I do not like point sources and I am a fan of halogen light or LEDS that simulate it. I like "Philips warm glow" for that reason.

Yes me too, the "apple store white" is not so fun when having a nice dinner  

Only thing regarding the spec of the Philips is the CRI of 80 for me, but that is sometimes different depending on manufacturer is my experience.

How is the color rendition in "real life"?

Does that light source work well with Fibaro V2 (lowest possible light level, flicker, soft start etc)

 

1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

I agree with your your post, though colour temperature might be a bit personal too. I also own three LED strips so I can tune colour...

Yes, its very personal, some like the super crisp white. 3000-4000K.

I also have LED strips and recommend them to customers under the uppers in the kitchen.

I use 24V RGBW stripes, its great to be able to set that "perfect color"  

 

I have an issue though controlling RGBW device with associations using a V2 dimmer, the color is not memorised and red is only controlled sometimes.

You get that to?

 

[petergebruers 1,265]

On 1/12/2018 at 11:12 AM, speedy said:

Only thing regarding the spec of the Philips is the CRI of 80 for me, but that is sometimes different depending on manufacturer is my experience.

How is the color rendition in "real life"?

Does that light source work well with Fibaro V2 (lowest possible light level, flicker, soft start etc)

 

Sorry for the delay. I've had to think hard... what can I do to convey my point of view without causing misunderstanding... I think I could fill a whole page. I am a bit of an amateur photographer, so I do care about good rendering of prints. I also own about 15 different LED types of LED bulb plus about 15 bare chips and a few COBs. Still, I am convinced I know less than 0.1 % of what is available on the market. That said, I like halogen lamps for ambient and accent lighting and the Philips Warm Glow works well for me. It is probably only CRI 80 so you could say it is "inaccurate".  But it is inaccurate in a pleasant way: it is warm, not red, not pink, not yellow, not green. It dims down to a few %. However, if I wanted to judge the quality of a photo, I would not use a lamp with such a low colour temperature. I'd say 4000 - 5000 K CRI 95 is required to do that. I used special fluorescent lamps for this purpose and this week I ordered a high CRI LED strip.

 

I bet many people know about CRI but for those that don't, this video demonstrates the effect of CRI on video recording:

 

 

 

 

On 1/12/2018 at 11:12 AM, speedy said:

I have an issue though controlling RGBW device with associations using a V2 dimmer, the color is not memorised and red is only controlled sometimes.

You get that to?

 

Sorry, no idea... I do not use associations much. Would it be possible to use "LED strip amplifier" to avoid having to use 2 modules? 

[speedy 64]

On 1/14/2018 at 8:11 PM, petergebruers said:

Philips Warm Glow works well for me. It is probably only CRI 80 so you could say it is "inaccurate".  But it is inaccurate in a pleasant way: it is warm, not red, not pink, not yellow, not green. It dims down to a few %.

Sorry for the late reply, have been on vacation  

Thanks for the information. Its always nice to have multiple options of LED lights "in the bank".

I will buy and try one.

 

On 1/14/2018 at 8:11 PM, petergebruers said:

I ordered a high CRI LED strip.

Ah cool, if you have the time let me know how you like it, i have not tried his CRI strips.

 

 

On 1/14/2018 at 8:11 PM, petergebruers said:

 

Sorry, no idea... I do not use associations much. Would it be possible to use "LED strip amplifier" to avoid having to use 2 modules? 

I use a V2 dimmer to control the RGBW device with associations.

Its a situation where there are no cables from the place where the switches are to the RGBW device and nothing can be done to fix it.

But thanks anyway!