Jump to content

Welcome to Smart Home Forum by FIBARO

Dear Guest,

 

as you can notice parts of Smart Home Forum by FIBARO is not available for you. You have to register in order to view all content and post in our community. Don't worry! Registration is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to sign up. Become a part of of Smart Home Forum by FIBARO by creating an account.

 

As a member you can:

  •     Start new topics and reply to others
  •     Follow topics and users to get email updates
  •     Get your own profile page and make new friends
  •     Send personal messages
  •     ... and learn a lot about our system!

 

Regards,

Smart Home Forum by FIBARO Team


  • 0

Controlling 12V DC Solenoids


slowpoke115

Question

I've purchased 2x 12v DC solenoids after reading a guide relating to garden irrigation online. The guide is over 3 years old and I've since read that this fibaro relay switch will not work with DC; is this still true? Should I be looking at a different product? Do fibaro offer any alternative products I could use to achieve the same goal? Or should I look to purchase AC solenoids or perhaps a higher voltage?

 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Recommended Posts

  • 0
  • Inquirer
  • 9 hours ago, Vinisz said:

    @slowpoke115, who talks about an ethernet switch ??? The eth008 is not a switch, it is a 8 channel relay board

    I just want a wave solution which uses the sprinkler panel in my HC2; avoiding ethernet entirely. If this uses ethernet and packet switching, it's not meeting my needs.

    Edited by slowpoke115
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
  • Inquirer
  • 19 hours ago, cag014 said:

    Have same relay, no issue with inclusion... by the way is it work manually ?

    Wait a minute.. you wrote 12VDC connected to N and L ? It is wrong....

    You should connect 220 VAC to N and L

     The +12VDC you need to run through  Q^ and Qv.

    See diagram below for your connection (I1 and I2 you can leave disconnected, I believe you don't need to control solenoid manually)

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    Thanks, this is really cool :)

     

    Excuse my ignorance though, in this diagram L and N, are they separate power sources to 12VDC? Ideally I wanted one power supply for the whole lot. Maybe it would have been smarter (and cheaper) to just get a TKB home plug :D

     

    I truly am thankful for all the time and effort you've given me, I'm determined to get this working!!! Thanks again.

     

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
  • Inquirer
  • I've made a support request to qubino, I can't include the device  so I suspect there's an underlying problem. The manual has a page displaying wiring information, however the power is 24VDC. I've tried a few ways of cabling this now but I'm getting nowhere :( 

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
  • Inquirer
  • Just got this working! Had to split the plug into two as suggested by cag, so the two terminals used to power the DC power supply ALSO power on the dry switch... Feels/looks pretty dangerous; but it works!

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
    On 8/7/2018 at 6:26 AM, slowpoke115 said:

    Just got this working! Had to split the plug into two as suggested by cag, so the two terminals used to power the DC power supply ALSO power on the dry switch... Feels/looks pretty dangerous; but it works!

     

    @slowpoke115 - hi - how did you get it working? I realised tonight i purchased 24v AC solenoids. The z-wave smart switch talks of powering 24v *DC* devices. Garrgh. Cant believe i missed that. What do you mean by split the plug in two ? I see they sell 12v DC solenoids, so when so you said divide by two i got vaguely hopeful of some electrical trick that can halve the voltage but i guess thats optomostic thinking. 

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
    I have for a number of years been running a sprinkler system with 2 older style Fibaro Double Relays (FGS-221) to control four 12v DC solenoid valves also using a 12v DC transformer for IN.
     
    I have a spare 12v DC solenoid valve that I would like to now add to the sprinkling system. My understanding was that the Fibaro Relay 2 modules (FGS-213\223) did not have a dry contact so would not allow an alternative power source for IN so have recently purchased the new Fibaro Smart Module (FGS-214), as this has returned to having the dry contact, but I am a bit confused about how I can set this up as the manual states "always use the same power source for L and IN terminals".
     
    Can I control the 12v solenoid valve using this module the same way as I did using the previous FGS-221?
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    sorry, wrong post

    Edited by akatar
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
    5 hours ago, bgoldie said:

    "always use the same power source for L and IN terminals".

    You have to follow the diagrams and they show L and N connected.

     

    This means, either everything runs at 100-240V~ 50/60Hz or  everything runs at 24-30V DC. é'

     

    You are not allowed to mix 230 V and 24 V on the same module, it has to do with safety regulations. It is to avoid accidental 230V peaks enter 24 V system because those very likely are "extra low voltage" to protect injuries eg in wet rooms, pool sides.

     

    5 hours ago, bgoldie said:

    Can I control the 12v solenoid valve using this module the same way as I did using the previous FGS-221?

    With strict interpretation of the manual the answer is "no" because 12V is too low to make the module start. You could run a 24 V solenoid system with a 24 DC supply but that means you have to buy new stuff...

    To be honest, I don not own this module and I am not sure if you could just buy a (double insulated) 24DC supply to power the FGS-214,  connect it to L then connect your 12 V sprinkler system to IN1. Imho that is not a safety violation, in fact 12 V is safer than 24 and both are in the same ELV category... But there might be technical reasons for connecting IN to L in the manual, so we need more info.

     

    @m.roszak can you elaborate on how to control a 12 V load eg sprinklers with FGS-2x4? Clearly at least one power supply must be  24-30 VDC but you can step down the voltage for the load, or use an additional 12 V DC for the sprinklers. There is another interesting case: some loads like solenoids are 24 V AC, what about these?

    • Thanks 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    @petergebruers

    The old version runs on 230vac but has a contact (relais) to connect something else

    You can connect one side of the wires to the "in" and the other side to the solenoid.

    relais q1 and q2 connects to in

     

    example:

    12vdc, the + side to the solenoid

    the 0 to the "in" connection and q1 the 0 to the solenoid

     

    i use the old module with 24vac sprinkler valves for my garden.

     

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
    3 minutes ago, akatar said:

    ;The old version runs on 230vac but has a contact (relais) to connect something else

    You can connect one side of the wires to the "in" and the other side to the solenoid.

    relais q1 and q2 connects to in

    Yes, I am aware of that possibility but (a) I was specifically referring to the FGS-2x4 series and (b) some countries require a certain distance between the 12V and the 230 V circuits. In Belgium you would not be allowed to use a relay with insufficient creepage and clearance in case the 12 or 24 V used in "wet areas".

     

    The circuit can be connected as you depicted, but it is not (always) considered safe... The idea is that due to pollution and moisture a small leakage current might develop between 230V and your "safe" voltage...

     

    It is all about isolation, safety and also about rules and regulations.

     

    It is not my field of expertise, but I do have many power supplies and some manufacturers skimp on this, others do a thorough job and make slots in the boards to keep a safe distance between "live" and eg your phone...

     

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    It is not easy to get enough separation in small modules...

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    @petergebruers

    Well, then connect a 230vac relais to the module and use that relais to switch the solenoid.

    same idea, but extra external relaid and enough space between the 230vac and the 12/24 etc voltage.

    • Like 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
    Just now, akatar said:

    same idea, but extra external relaid and enough space between the 230vac and the 12/24 etc voltage.

    Yes, exactly, that would be safe. And legal in Belgium.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    Btw: since some time Fibaro is using in their Modules additionaly (kind of) conformal coating on the area of interest (high voltage relais side on pcb), which was actually requeired the first time some years ago to fix the Wallplug "issue" (Sweden? Finnland? - you maybe remember these EU/CE certificated Fibaro Wallplugs, banned by local administration due to additional moisture / clearance requirements). Anyway, while this is fine, still there is need to check local restrictions, based on use case.

    • Like 1
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    I've been following this (and other related posts on controlling irrigation) for a while and thought I'd add my 5 cents / tuppence (or whatever current you use in your part of the world ?) to the conversation to show the solution I came up with a while ago.

     

    My original solution was very similar to @akatar's description above, but after a bit more deep diving into local regulations (and my own personal view of wanting the solution to not only function properly but also to look neat and elegant), I switched to a

    Please login or register to see this link.

    mounted solution which allowed me a lot more flexibility. It also incorporates relays that switch the solenoids on the watering valves on and off. This is to prevent any

    Please login or register to see this link.

    between the supply and load circuits in the Fibaro modules as suggested by @petergebruers, especially if you are setting this up in a wet or damp environment (my setup is some 20+ metres away from my valves and pump area and is inside a separate building).

     

    Depending upon the requirements for power that your solenoid valves have, you could replace the power supply for a different supply (for example, a DC supply that provides 12V, such as the power adapter shown in @akatar's diagram), as long as the total load on it does not exceed it's maximum capabilities)

     

    The diagram below shows my setup. Happy to walk anyone through it in detail if interested. Hope this helps!

     

     

    Please login or register to see this spoiler.

     

    Edited by LeeSteventon
    • Like 2
    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Answer this question...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    ×
    ×
    • Create New...