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  • 6

Fibaro HC3 - Is It Worthwhile?


PepsiMac
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Question

Anyone got any detail on release date and features for the HC3?

 

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/monthly_2020_01/HC3.png.72d342f12816006f1555e39aa1762655.png" />

 

So far ....

 

  • Processor: Quad-core Arm Cortex A53 (1.2 GHz)
  • RAM: 2 GB
  • HDD: 8 GB
  • Power supply: 12V DC
  • Dimensions: 220x140x35 mm 
  • Z-Wave (500): 868.0-868.6 MHz 869.7-870.0 MHz
  • 433MHz (OOK, FSK, GFSK): 433.54-433.92 MHz
  • 868 MHz (OOK, FSK, GFSK): 868.3-868.94 MHz
  • ZigBee 2405-2480MHz
  • Wi-Fi (802.11 b/g/n/a/ac) 2400-2483MHz 5150-5350MHz
  • Bluetooth Low Energy 2402-2480MHz
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If I can not transfer my scenes and devices to the HC3 through downloading a backup from HC2 I’m not going to buy it. That is for sure. 

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  • 1 hour ago, Thomasn said:

    If I can not transfer my scenes and devices to the HC3 through downloading a backup from HC2 I’m not going to buy it. That is for sure. 

     

    I am surprised to learn that there is no upgrade path from the HC2 to HC3. Customer migration is critical to customer retention strategies and if Fibaro is asking those who acquire an HC3 to start again, this will only afford a significant number of current customers to look at alternatives as they all involve starting afresh.

     

    If anyone from Fibaro is paying attention, I recall how Apple's Migration Tool played a significant part in the market growth of the MacBook as people on IBM Compatibles were able to transfer without huge time and knowledge resources.

     

    Like you, this news means that I am in no hurry to consider the HC3 any time soon.

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  • 8 hours ago, K.Drozynski said:

    @D-Vine, I can honestly say that when it comes to HC3 and choosing Z-Wave 500 series chip over Z-Wave 700 series chip @tinman hit the nail on the head with his explanation.

     

    Just to confirm, the point I make is that saving energy on the operation of the main unit and life of the device batteries is an advantage, however small some may consider that advantage to be. An engineer at Imperial College confirmed to me that the difference between the 500 and 700 confirm the 700 has energy saving and other advantages. Please understand I do not argue the quantum thereof but if I am going to spend £500 to upgrade from my 2005 Series 300 HC2 device, I would want to upgrade to a device as future-proofed as possible. Fibaro is good at the artwork, design and allure, I think I need it to be good on the technology as well to provide a more complete sense of a solution.

    11 hours ago, tinman said:

    z-wave SoC is not always sending, read the frequency specs, so the real max difference we talk is 50mW. Fibaro HC3 is mains powered - it is computer based system - always on - consuming 20-30W all the time, and you talk about renewable energy. With 700series, this would be not 70% of consumption reduction, but only 0,2%

     

    The discussion about power consumption caused me to make some enquiries. If I may explain, I am a strategic consultant that advises several of the World's largest companies. One of the projects I currently consult on involves many of the tech giants looking at future homes. I asked techies the question about the power consumption, expecting, as usual, to be more confused that when I started.

     

    I summarise various responses I received during the course of today. Apple Inc. reckons that there is a significant difference in the transmission energy of various protocols (not just z-waves) and that that the greater efficiencies would have marked impacts on the battery life of the individual devices. Apart from the cost of batteries and capacity storage, they indicate that  some devices go to the extent of looking at "energy generation by signal deflection", whatever that means. Ubiquiti reckons that as "Wifi 6" offers 1. Higher data rates, 2. Increased capacity, 3. Seamless performance in environments with many connected devices and 4. Improved power efficiency, they believe that home automation will go the way of multiple wifi devices (raspberry pi, arduino, direct sensors etc) and Imperial College (London) commented on a new type of lighting that outperforms LED and that all energy devices were being revised to go beyond A+++ ratings. They say that even small self-generation units are being prototyped (Zinc Air, Nitrogen or such like) that will do way with much of the need for wiring.

     

    The caveat is that these sorts of organisations have "future room" technologies that often wait for a demand to be identified. The overall sense I got was that with the common introduction of mesh and multiple device wifi, stability and security will mean that wifi will become the common relay and sensor protocol. Apple mentioned that 3rd parties are working on drag and drop interfaces (with standard themes) in Filemaker Pro to control home automation systems, particularly in the social care, medical, building automation areas. One techie at Ubiquiti even reckons with wifi automation systems, simple web-design-like interfaces will overtake the structured interfaces of the current solutions although I think Imperihomes has already started down this path.

     

    Anyway, the lack of an upgrade path has significantly cooled an appetite for the HC3 in the near term.

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    On 1/13/2020 at 1:01 PM, PepsiMac said:

    Anyone got any detail on release date and features for the HC3?

     

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    So far ....

     

    • Processor: Quad-core Arm Cortex A53 (1.2 GHz)
    • RAM: 2 GB
    • HDD: 8 GB
    • Power supply: 12V DC
    • Dimensions: 220x140x35 mm 
    • Z-Wave (500): 868.0-868.6 MHz 869.7-870.0 MHz
    • 433MHz (OOK, FSK, GFSK): 433.54-433.92 MHz
    • 868 MHz (OOK, FSK, GFSK): 868.3-868.94 MHz
    • ZigBee 2405-2480MHz
    • Wi-Fi (802.11 b/g/n/a/ac) 2400-2483MHz 5150-5350MHz
    • Bluetooth Low Energy 2402-2480MHz

     

    and the zwave AU frequency? 921.?

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    over the years i managed to "smarten" my house using zwave and it works fine so far by now....since i learned the "hard" way what happens when the HC2 is failing i did buy a 2nd one and now have an active and cold standby.  In emergency cases i easily can transfer the config online onto the backup HC2 and then the house is "working" again...

     

    so i naturally am interested in getting the HC3 (also since it supports other protocolls) but then the support confirmed to me, that there is no way planned to migrate from old HC2 to new HC3....this is the KILL switch for me, since i simply don't want to open all the power outlets and roller shutter, and and and where i used fibaro zwave actors and devices....the same goes for the programming, which i was told is totally different on the HC3 over the HC2....so even my LUA scenes won't work anymore.....so the HC3 may be a good product for a beginner, but as an existing solution customer it's not for me....

     

    but hey.... think of it from fibaro's point of view....we all already spend our money on their HC2 solution, so we possibly won't spend more money on a new gateway...so why should they offer a migration plan....

    it's the same why i never will buy a playstation again... i had the PS3, spend lots of money and then the PS4 with no backward capability came....so i told myself...thank you.... i keep my old PS3 as long as i can and save a huge amount of money, since i don't buy the next generation....

    So for me it's here the same... i keep my HC2 as long as i can and slowly start looking for alternatives...sure i like the HC2....but for me long term support is more important than having a nice webgui....

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    W dniu 16.01.2020 o 21:22, PepsiMac napisał:

     

    Just to confirm, the point I make is that saving energy on the operation of the main unit and life of the device batteries is an advantage, however small some may consider that advantage to be. An engineer at Imperial College confirmed to me that the difference between the 500 and 700 confirm the 700 has energy saving and other advantages. Please understand I do not argue the quantum thereof but if I am going to spend £500 to upgrade from my 2005 Series 300 HC2 device, I would want to upgrade to a device as future-proofed as possible. Fibaro is good at the artwork, design and allure, I think I need it to be good on the technology as well to provide a more complete sense of a solution.

     

    The discussion about power consumption caused me to make some enquiries. If I may explain, I am a strategic consultant that advises several of the World's largest companies. One of the projects I currently consult on involves many of the tech giants looking at future homes. I asked techies the question about the power consumption, expecting, as usual, to be more confused that when I started.

     

    I summarise various responses I received during the course of today. Apple Inc. reckons that there is a significant difference in the transmission energy of various protocols (not just z-waves) and that that the greater efficiencies would have marked impacts on the battery life of the individual devices. Apart from the cost of batteries and capacity storage, they indicate that  some devices go to the extent of looking at "energy generation by signal deflection", whatever that means. Ubiquiti reckons that as "Wifi 6" offers 1. Higher data rates, 2. Increased capacity, 3. Seamless performance in environments with many connected devices and 4. Improved power efficiency, they believe that home automation will go the way of multiple wifi devices (raspberry pi, arduino, direct sensors etc) and Imperial College (London) commented on a new type of lighting that outperforms LED and that all energy devices were being revised to go beyond A+++ ratings. They say that even small self-generation units are being prototyped (Zinc Air, Nitrogen or such like) that will do way with much of the need for wiring.

     

    The caveat is that these sorts of organisations have "future room" technologies that often wait for a demand to be identified. The overall sense I got was that with the common introduction of mesh and multiple device wifi, stability and security will mean that wifi will become the common relay and sensor protocol. Apple mentioned that 3rd parties are working on drag and drop interfaces (with standard themes) in Filemaker Pro to control home automation systems, particularly in the social care, medical, building automation areas. One techie at Ubiquiti even reckons with wifi automation systems, simple web-design-like interfaces will overtake the structured interfaces of the current solutions although I think Imperihomes has already started down this path.

     

    Anyway, the lack of an upgrade path has significantly cooled an appetite for the HC3 in the near term.

     

    Hi

     

    Zw700 unfortunately suffered a very long delay during development, it was supposed to be ready almost two years ago. No one will wait indefinitely, especially since support for the chip wouldn't be a problem as if it were then, additionally the certification of the solution takes several months. Additionally, right after the premiere, we know that it will take some time before the SDK matures.

    In the case of controllers, you don't lose anything, because Zw500 has them as options and you just need to activate them.  The new platform is much more energy efficient, so there is no chance to fry eggs on it :)

     

    W dniu 17.01.2020 o 00:31, Rodolfo napisał:

     

    and the zwave AU frequency? 921.?

    we got that in plans

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    On 1/17/2020 at 12:31 PM, Rodolfo said:

    and the zwave AU frequency? 921.?

     

     THIS!!!

     

    9 hours ago, A.Socha said:

    we got that in plans

     

    So when will HC3 be available in AU/NZ @A.Socha?  By you saying "in plans" I assume that means it will be after the US/EU release, so can you let us know how much longer after?

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    10 godzin temu, clowg napisał:

    So when will HC3 be available in AU/NZ @A.Socha?  By you saying "in plans" I assume that means it will be after the US/EU release, so can you let us know how much longer after?

    I will say only that after EU, till i will don't know end date from all certifications i don't want to declare anything, some countries may get is faster some later it is all depend certification process on ANZ. some may get 2 weeks in others 3 months

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  • Fibaro Press statement seems to indicate some of the features I have not read in the sales literature:

     

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    Compatibility with popular consumer solutions has not been forgotten either. Home Center 3 will work with solutions such as IFTTT, Sonos, Alexa, Google Assistant, Siri, Netatmo, D-Link and Samsung SmartThings - as well as many others.

    The device itself, although it probably will not be an important element of the interior with us, also looks good. The plastic soft-touch housing in black and copper colors resembles an advanced RTV device, not the specialized equipment it actually is.

    Home Center 3 has antennas located inside the casing, in addition, the manufacturer ensures that the control panel configuration wizard is very easy to use - even an advanced user can handle it. More advanced users and experts will appreciate hundreds of key functions that they have created based on their own experience, including the ability to configure automation using tools such as block scenes, LUA events or Quick Apps.

    Wonder if this is included in the new virtual device?

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    @Thomasn I can send to you script on Python what can save all your devices and scenes as plain text ;) and you can bought HC3 hopping what maybe (but I'm not sure about it) somebody will give me HC3 for porting HC2 to HC3 scenes ;) 

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    5 hours ago, 10der said:

    @Thomasn I can send to you script on Python what can save all your devices and scenes as plain text ;) and you can bought HC3 hopping what maybe (but I'm not sure about it) somebody will give me HC3 for porting HC2 to HC3 scenes ;) 


    Thank you. Python is a kind of a snake, right? I am not in the market for a new Homecenter. At least not until my current setup fails. And I’m not sure that Homecenter3 is for me under the currently known conditions. But let’s see the gizmo after the release. 

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  • 1 hour ago, Thomasn said:

    At least not until my current setup fails

     

    This is the bit that drives simple folk like me nuts. Some of us just want a "home automation" solution that just works!! Is that too much to ask for? I note in his LinkedIn profile that, Maciej Fiedler (recently departed Founder & former CEO of Fibaro), made the following comments:

     

    "The time has come...

    Since Im no longer with Fibaro, decided to change the smarthome solution in my property. 
    More than two decades in this IT sector gives me the knowelage that the choice is only one!

    So If you know any pro hashtag#Control4 installers please redirect to directly to me.


    "Now is the time to reverse back labolatory to the real home.
    According to remote acces and integrating FBR devices to C4 - no way;)

    Do not forget that I personally tested all the systems from the globe and exactly know „how the sausage is made”;)"

     

    The first statement tells me he was aware of the amount of time and effort to run the Fibaro system and the second one confirms he did not care what quality he was selling to the installers and distributors for them to sell onto the customer, an attitude I long recognised.

     

    Now, with

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    's professional, and experienced, management approach, getting more directly involved in Fibaro's management and technical process, with their in-depth exposure, especially with BIM, robotic and activity automation, the future looks much more stable and brighter. There are opportunists, entrepreneurs and industrialists, Mr Fiedler clearly fits the first, as he seems not to value the range he is responsible for creating. The entrepreneur learns as he goes along and cares about customer retention and the industrialist brings all the managerial, technical and sales resources required for stability, customer retention, qualitative delivery and development pathway.

     

    Silicon Labs are experience semi-conductor manufacturers although they took over z-wave recently, already control Zigbee and manufacture key components for WiFi, 433, 868 etc, I believe, meaning that they have the technical capacity to support and assist Fibaro in the quality delivery of the HC3.

     

    These factors would indicate Fibaro has a change to be solid, stable and reliable organisation producing "solid" products.

     

    On this basis, one can be far more confident that the HC3 will be a different approach though I will wait to read the manual before "diving" into the new release.

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    @PepsiMacIf I read your quote from mr. Fiedler right, he doesn't believe in his own (created) product? This is the biggest WTF of the year already. ? 

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  • 3 hours ago, Joep said:

    If I read your quote from mr. Fiedler right,

     

    Just not to be too controversial, something tells me he may have been forced out ... perhaps he wanted the payment and also the control but maybe his standards were different from NICE's corporate position. When taken over in mid-2018, tech companies may often give a 3 year "stay in place" contract, usually because of the product development and launch cycle. The speed to change and the fact that Fibaro can monitor his system remotely may have made him feel he had to make the change.

     

    If you are on LinkedIn, you can read the various messages and draw your own conclusion (

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    ).

     

    My thought is that, whatever the reason, NICE will bring improved software and hardware quality to Fibaro.

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  • Just by way of update, the zigbee and bluetooth chips are included in the HC3 box but with no access to then via the software. If the zigbee is not coming out until the end of 2020, by then, the 700 series chip may have settled and there could be an HC4.

     

    On balance of the input, I am minded to wait, and not rush, to get the HC3. The 500 series chip is an update but the learning curve for a new UI etc. makes me think I should wait till they come up as pre-owned on ebay and get one to test whilst waiting for the HC4.

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    The topic has been moved from "

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    Temat został przeniesiony z "

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    Perhaps i buy one to see and to test what i can do with all my devices but...

    i read somewhere there is limited support for third party zwave devices, is there a list what will work?

     

    i have some fakro zwave window openers and aeotec quad wall controllers. will they work??

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  • Please do not explain to me, I prefer to verify my information from a qualified authority, Silicon Labs, the owner, and legally responsible certification authority, for z-wave standards and compliance requirements under various regulatory and consumer protection legislation.

     

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    which states:

     

    "Certification of devices to Z-Wave standards is required as part of the Trademark and Distribution License agreement and every device must pass a series of stringent tests to assure that it is compliant prior to the device being marketed or sold commercially."

     

    The purpose of certification is:

     

    "Certification is also a prerequisite for the use of the Z-Wave logo or name. The Z-Wave or Z-Wave Plus logo on a product or package assures consumers, dealers, integrators and service providers that the products will reliably perform with all Z-Wave certified products designed for the same region."

     

    As such, it is not the individual manufacturer that decides if a product is displayed on the z-wave alliance as certified but the responsibility of Silicon Labs.

     

    No more of the useless discussion as you appear unable to understand what you read.

     

     

     

     

     

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