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Smart Home Forum by FIBARO Team

Matter - what do you think about it?


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This is what I'm asking about:

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I just like Paul Hibbert and I agree with his opinion:


What about you?

What do you think how this matter will affect us, Fibaro users?

Edited by Sankotronic
added link to solids, sorry matter :-)
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Fibaro is CSA member, so zigbee Q1 22, matter Q3 22, thread product line (instead of HK) Q1 23, so far what i see in my crystal ball, but on the other hand who knows how this or actually how matter affect smarthome world. Definitely lot of manufacturers will stay on their own (proprietary or not) solutions, with matter for outside world.

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Situation: there are 14 competing HA standards...

14? Ridiculous! Let's invent a new one to rule them all!

Situation: there are 15 competing HA standards...


Cartoon by XKCD


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As far as i understand it, nothing will change for me using matter?


as it is now, zigbee button sents command to central controller (homeseer), that sents command to hue bridge to turn on a light


in the future, zigbee button sents command to central controller (matter), that sents command to hue bridge to turn on a light


looks like a waste of money? (in my case)


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1 hour ago, Sjekke said:

Like Homey Pro? No?

heh heh, exactly, just like homey (pro)

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If matter sits across the top of zigbee and zwave, isn't that a good thing for Fibaro? Allows HC3 to (eventually) be a protocol converter. And provides some investment protection for those of us with existing zwave devices.


All depends on how Fibaro play this of course.

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13 hours ago, Tim__ said:

If matter sits across the top of zigbee and zwave


It is actually more complicated than that, and trying to summarise what "matter" does in a way that does not, well, over-simplify... Tough...


I think this document from Silabs does give a few answers... And Silabs is part of *all* alliances and the sole manufacturer of Z-Wave chips (but as I understand it, they are no longer the *sole* owners of the Z-Wave standard).


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Look how flashy that statement is and how little contents... Let me summarise it for you by doing some selective quoting (*).


  • "it’s a connectivity standard that builds on existing IP-connectivity protocols" - translation: if something (a gateway) can do IPV6 and translate*your* protocol (eg Z-Wave) into matter, you stand a change of integrating it with other matter components. Z-Wave has Z/IP to emulate IPV6 but it is not "Matter Compatible". This is how Hue plans to transform existing Hue networks into "Matter" networks
  • "Currently, companies including Amazon, Apple, and Google still require products to be certified for their ecosystems even if they’re Matter certified.". No Comment!
  • "Security is a core tenant of Matter, including authentication of devices joining the network, encryption of messages all the way to the destination, use of proven and standard cryptographic algorithms, and over-the-air (OTA) updates.". Okay, this may seem to be a big benefit but there is a DARK SIDE ti this as wall... Forget about tinkering... Everything will be locked with keys, keys and keys and you won't be able to change or update any running code (signed bootloader and firmware). For better or for worse. Forget about "Tasmota", or "ESPHOME" or "PTVO".
  • "Is Bluetooth supported? Matter is designed to run on IP protocols, but Bluetooth can be used for device provisioning.". Translation: actually, like Zigbee, the protocol itself is "not matter" so by itself is not *truly* matter. A gateway, if someone builds such a thing, might make it matter compatible
  • "While it should be technically possible to convert in-field devices running the latest generation of 802.15.4 chipsets from Zigbee to Thread using OTA updates, older devices would likely not meet the security or stack space specifications required for Matter." - So converting existing devices to  "true Matter devices" seems highly unlikely. Silabs further translates this point as "It will be simpler, more stable, and a better user experience to bridge existing sensor networks to interoperate with Matter networks."
  • "Z-Wave (and Zigbee) networks have IP at the gateway level enabling cloud connectivity to Matter.". This even surprised me a moment, but strictly speaking, yes, Z-Wave CAN have IP CLOUD connections. In fact, Z/IP also known as "Z-Wave version 3 on HC3 and YUBII" can have this IPV6 cloud connection (if they enable it...)... I bet less than 10 users on this forum know what I am talking about and have ever seen this but it exists (in public form) since 2016. Five years, and zero momentum, wow, that is an all time low! I am going to tag two users who know what I am talking about, @robmac and @tinman - so still 8 people to find to prove me wrong. LOLand BTW  would you want to have *cloud* connection to have "Matter - Z-Wave" connectivity? For me, cloud = no go!
  • "Further we will see bridging products, enabling Matter and Z-Wave products working together at local network level." @Tim__ this is what you are saying and indeed Silabs seems (independent) manufacturers to build such gateways. It is not 100% clear if they are going to provide a compatible product, they don't say and I have no clue.
  • "How will Z-Wave devices connect to the Matter ecosystem?" - "Bridges will allow non-Matter devices, including Z-Wave, to interact with Matter ecosystems." - that is the same but rephrased. IMHO you can almost hear how Silabs "feels like Z-Wave should have been part of Matter", but in reality, it is not... Oh, that is speculation.
  • "Can Zigbee and Thread be run in a single chip? Silicon Labs is a leader in multiprotocol wireless technology, and we continue to look at ways to support Matter use cases with our EFR32 platform.". Translation. The only *true* "Matter Protocol" is Thread which run on eg "Nest" products. The "Thread Group" manages this standard and the confusion of Thread vs Zigbee comes from the fact they both use a "Zigbee Radio Protocol" which is a lot older (I think it was last revised around 2007). So you would think they are compatible but as explained before, there are stringent requirements and running 2 stacks on one device would seem... challenging. 
  • "What will happen to my existing Zigbee devices?" Silabs says they will "co exist" so they say nothing. Many devices is my house "co exist". LOL


After reading this, my guess is 99% of will understand even less what it is all about... And many of you may have tried different gateways and find the point of Matter quite moot.


If you haven't looked at open source, you'll see on their forums they debate "matter" - a little bit - but mostly it boils down to "we already can do that".



(*) I actually quoted almost everything in that document... Don't say I am biased, hehehe...


BTW most of these standards are "open" but not free


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Membership Benefits at a Glance
Promoter $105,000 USD/yr
Participant $20,000 USD/yr
Adopter $7,000 USD/yr


That is 7000 $ per year to get the spec.

Edited by petergebruers
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  • 2 weeks later...

To me Matter sounds like it will give us no more than Node Red, openHAB or Home Assistant already offer the HA enthusiast. All of these can already combine many protocols and standards into a single home automation. The bonus with these is that you can still tweak and mess and they are all designed to be open.

The greatest challenge in HA is not getting a device to measure the temperature or switch on a light but to do it intelligently. I can not see how a new protocol or standard takes us forward. For me the next frontier to make HA truly useful is room by room occupancy and predictive automated control that does not require me to code specific knowledge of my household behaviour. Yes we can sort of bodge some solutions specific to our needs but there is no solution that learns and fits to our circumstances without us doing a lot of work. Each time I think about this I remember that fantastic Fibaro marketing from 2012 where everything just happened as the occupants in/out of the house needed it to happen. 10 years on very little of what the marketing department at Fibaro implied was possible is easily possible and even the bits that are take a lot of work.

We can do the basics using current wireless or wired solutions or a combination. From my reading, Matter does nothing to move beyond current limits and adds nothing to address the true challenges of achieving smart HA rather than just providing an alternate method of control.

For me it will be a big none event when it hits the shops.

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  • 4 months later...

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