Radiator valves loosing connection

[Neo Andersson 142]

Dear Fibaro superusers

May I kindly ask for some real support here.

We are installing Fibaro systems, and all of my customers are coming bak to me with the same problem.

Radiator valves from Danfoss (POPP)  are loosing connection after the battery got replaced. Every single valve acts the same way.

Before the battery replacement, all of them were working properly, only after the battery relpacement they started to loosing connection.

It is not constant loss, but they catch the signal for some minutes then they loose it, and it gooes like this.

Probably that's why the device is not reporting the correct values at corret times, so the scheduled heating plans are worht to nothing. 

I have tried everything what i could. Soft reconfigured the device, reconfigured the mesh network, rebooted HC3. Nothing works.

Very frustrating, an even more frustrating for the customers, as it happens in winter time.

Does anyone have any similar probelms, and could solve it somehow please?

 

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Edited March 2, 2022 by Neo Andersson

[Sjakie 135]

@Neo Andersson,

-- did you replaced with same brand AA?

-- is the mA value identical?

-- does both bats have the same level of charging?

I have had a bad experience with rechargeable bateries in my Aeotec sensors but in Danalock they operate excellent.

I asume the link test will tell you also its not having connection if you see some problems.

//Sjakie

perhaps your customers are buiyng batteries at the same shop?

[Neo Andersson 142]

Yes batteries are the same AA type, however i did't check the mA value. I thought that it must be the same if its AA. I will check it. 

Thanks

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

Definitely do not use rechargeable batteries with Danfoss LC12 and LC13... It is mentioned in the manual that 1.2V batteries do not work (well). I tried and the manual is right. The popp is e rebranded LC13 with new firmware, and the manual does not mention fresh "2 * AA batteries" which does not really say "single use batteries" but its wording suggests non-rechargeable imho.

 

What does "Link Test" say?

 

From the manual

 

Link Test
The Thermostat allows to check the link quality to the controller device. Press the middle button (o) for 3 seconds until M is displayed. Select "LI" in display using the arrow keys, then confirm the link test with the middle button. A blinking antenna symbol indicates the link test. If the antenna symbol keeps flashing after about 3 seconds there is a problem with the wireless connection. If the antenna symbol stops flashing, the link quality is sufficient. A successfull link test will also terminate the exception mode described below.

[Neo Andersson 142]

I am using 1,5V non-rechargable batteries. The link test shows that signal is OK. So i am out of ideas. Device, that was working properly more than a year, stops having connection after a battery replacement. This is way beyond my comprehension.

[Sjakie 135]

"I am using 1,5V non-rechargable batteries"

This doest say anything needs to go in specification.

Same brand as original?

I am having now AA bateries in a small electrical tondueze it long 10 minutes the original stays one month same usage.

You didt answer value of mA there is a range i dont know for sure 900-3000 so the high ones have more power and a longer life span

Voltage range 1.2-1.5 Volt

Perhaps you had 1.5 and now 1.2

Just a remark

//Sjakie

[petergebruers 1,261]

Yeah "The link test shows that signal is OK." is in contradiction with "stops having connection after a battery replacement."

 

What is your definition of a connection. To me, that word is not "well defined". Does it go "dead" in the interface?  When you change the setpoint on the device then does the HCx show you the new setpoint within 30 seconds? Or does the HCx show the new temp after one or more wake up intervals have passed?

 

Maybe we are just wasting time, those things happen eg the FGK-101 was very, very prone to resetting itself when the batteries are low and/or when batteries are replaced. But, I cannot say I've heard reports of it happening to those old "Popp" TRVs. Just exclude and include the device, fix up the heating panel and the scenes and be done with it for at least another year?

[Neo Andersson 142]

Loosing connection means, that it  shows disconnected status in the interface. The temperature reaports are ocassional. If the device is actualy online at the moment when the temeprature is changing, it sends it back, but if the device is offline, it doesnt send.

As I wrote earlier, the connection is not lost constantly, it is having the connection for some time, then its loosing for some time, then its gettig back again for some time..etc

Yeah, i did the exclude/ include and it seems now that its working. However, it has happened on all Danfoss valves so far, and the problem is, that if I install these valves to a customer that is 200km from me, you can imagine that solution like excluding/including again is not a wokbale solution. That's why i want to find the origin of the problem, but i couldn't. So far, after re-including it seems to work. I will wait if it keeps working.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Neo Andersson

[petergebruers 1,261]

8 minutes ago, Neo Andersson said:

Loosing connection means, that it  shows disconnected status in the interface.

The rule for battery devices is they go "DEAD" (cross icon on top of normal icon in browser) if the device "did not communicate within 3x the wake op interval" iirc. I might be miss-counting that but as a rule of thumb, if a device is set to wake up every 15 minutes (which imho would be a good interval for a Danfoss/Popp valve) then the controller expects a report every 15 minutes. On the other hand, if HCx did not receive a report within 45 minutes then it kind of expects the battery died and sets the TRV to "dead".

 

Clicking on it removes the "dead" status, it does not do any actuall communication for the simple reason that you cannot send data to battery sleeping devices. You can send data to battery FLiRS devices. But those are rare, the Fibaro FGT-001 and the Aeotec/Eurotronic Spirit.

 

So it is important, if you change the setpoint on the TRV, then within 30 seconds the HCx should show the same value...

 

It seems to me, this happens sometimes, but not always. So we can exclude issues like "controller not in group 1" and I agree it points to network trouble

 

17 minutes ago, Neo Andersson said:

As I wrote earlier, the connection is not lost constantly, it is having the connection for some time, then its loosing for some time, then its gettig back again for some time..etc

You might have a busy network, eg if you set wrong parameters on some devices they start sending a lot of data very fast. I cannot give a good example right now but iirc setting "report interval" of power reports t 0 on some Fibaro devices does not actually disable them, but make the device send like crazy instead.

 

I think you need Zniffer to diagnose those issues.

 

19 minutes ago, Neo Andersson said:

Yeah, i did the exclude/ include and it seems now that its working.

That's good news, but what I forgot to say and you'd probably agree that this is not a good diagnostic, it resets the device, resets the HCx settings of this devices and no way to tell which part really helped.

 

20 minutes ago, Neo Andersson said:

that if I install these valves to a customer that is 200km from me, you can imagine that solution like excluding/including again is not a wokbale solution.

No, that would not be a good customer experience. I cannot come up with a better solution though because the HCx cannot "diagnose" those issues so you have very few options, and at least "exclude and include" is something a customer can do and then you fix the code/panels using a remote access solution. The horror issue with those old devices is this: they might not include well if they are far away from the controller (double check but AFAIK they do not support NWI = network wide inclusion).

 

23 minutes ago, Neo Andersson said:

So far, after re-including it seems to work. I will wait if it keeps working.

If you are a bit like me... This is a weird situation, because you did "things" with magically solved a problem, without diagnosis and so what have we learned?

 

I keep thinking "this is not typical behaviour for those TRVs so what kind of external cause might be at hand?"

 

Maybe later you'll find another issue which then sheds a light on this mystery...

 

[Neo Andersson 142]

Thanks for your support