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Issue in update screen 5.110.15 - 5.111.48


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Hi.

i cannot seem to update my HC3 to the latest Fw...

when i click on the update screen i get an error and communication problem

 

any known issue?

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    Did you reboot the HC3? And login again?

    I sometimes get a 500 when my session cookie is expired and I have to re-enter my login credentials.

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    Same issue.

    Rebooted, tried different browsers - same issue.

    It has worked - I've read the changelog recently.

    Edited by NorthernRough
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    Seems this issue is a problem for some days now. Indeed a mayor issue. Fibaro does not respond. Thinking of returning the HC3, this is not usable anymore. Not a good start for my Fibaro experience.

     

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    @Jeroen Collewijn It is strange Fibaro doesn't responses. But it is almost Monday, a working day. Be patient, they will solve it. You will have many happy moments with your new HC3. btw if you can't handle this issue, I wouldn't recommend using a beta firmware version. Stay with the stable versions. 

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    @Jeroen Collewijn Strong words. The product is perfectly usable. Why the urge need to update to a beta?

     

     

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    On 6/19/2022 at 11:40 AM, Joep said:

    Why the urge need to update to a beta?

     

    must not be update to beta, but e.g. module update, so if one not click fast enough, error 500 comes. Same or first config, one need to click "skip and continue" in FTI to get HC configured. 

     

    On 6/19/2022 at 11:38 AM, SmartHomeEddy said:

    It is strange Fibaro doesn't responses. But it is almost Monday, a working day. 

     

    last week they had bank holiday on thursday, so on friday was nobody there (bridging day)

    Edited by tinman
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    On 6/19/2022 at 11:38 AM, SmartHomeEddy said:

    @Jeroen Collewijn It is strange Fibaro doesn't responses. But it is almost Monday, a working day. Be patient, they will solve it. You will have many happy moments with your new HC3. btw if you can't handle this issue, I wouldn't recommend using a beta firmware version. Stay with the stable versions. 

    That's my policy too. Skip all beta software from Fibaro will keep your system stable. However the last stable release does include Beta ZigBee??? I don't understand why Fibaro makes such choices. 

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    @Langedijk In our GA we got 2 functions with status early access called beta

    - new z-wave engine

    - ZigBee engine

     

    Official, both of them got or soon will have certification, but we know good that our clients want more - not raw "engine"

     

    So we added to GA and clients tests and reports us problem and suggestions witch we include in our development status.

     

    Old z-wave engine was development almost 8 years and got many functions what certificate engine don't have, every update we're adding small improvements, to new engines.

     

    Some users use them right now and is ok for them, for some they wait for parameter templete or some other improvments like brightness in zigbee etc

     

    For us is better to release it where more people test it. If you dont want beta function just dont use them they're not breaking anything in hub

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    Thank you for your explanation. If the Zigbee has no impact on the overall hub functionality, than that's fine by me.

     

    For the z-wave engine, where can I find that? When you run the latest stable release firmware on my HC3 (5.110.15) does this mean I am also running the latest z-wave engine.

    The z-wave page states I am running v. 4.33. I don't see the term Beta in the z-wave config screen.

    Can you explain? 

    By my experience Zigbee behaves like Beta software. But that's fine for first release of the Zigbee engine. I only attached three normal white lights (philips). The Hue color lichts I did remove after testing. For now I use: 

     

    z-wave is running really great on my HC3.

     

    By the way, overall experience with my HC3 is good.

    Overall experience with my previous owned HC2 was good as well. From mid 2020 onwards it was really stable, this was mainly when I stopped deploying beta releases.

     

    Kind regards,

    Menno

     

       
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    2 hours ago, Langedijk said:

    For the z-wave engine, where can I find that?

    The question only gets asked after a factory reset of your HC. So if this is your production system, you probably want to stay on the current version

     

    2 hours ago, Langedijk said:

    When you run the latest stable release firmware on my HC3 (5.110.15) does this mean I am also running the latest z-wave engine.

    No, you will be running the latest version of either engine 2 or engine 3 but you cannot go from 2 to 3 or back without factory reset.

     

    Engine 3 is for test only. For production, it is still the "older" one though that statement is relative. The main difference is about an internal communication protocol change, mandated by the Z-Wave specification.

     

    I expect Fibaro to announce it when "3.0" is ready for production.

     

    The real benefit is the implementation of S2 security protocol. That benefit is real - I mean by this if you really needed a bunch of secure devices like door locks then S2 is much better. But that does not change my opinion, 3.0 is not for production yet. For example, "gateway" connections are missing

     

    So "Z-Wave 3.0 is as early access - I suggest use 2.0 especially when you have old devices like Secure SRT, Z-wave 3.0 will work better is you got new z-wave Plus v2 devices"

     

    Note the "v2" in the name of the Z-Wave devices, which you probably haven't seen a lot because the spec says, the manufacturer can (and should iirc) mark them as "Z-Wave Plus"

     

    Someone asked if we should call this engine 3 an "alpha" - it is not! 

    Calling it an "alpha" may be a bit too harsh, it is more like "unfinished". It is a public beta, but not recommended for production.

     

    At the end of each recent HC3 firmware update revision log, Fibaro states this:

     

    Please login or register to see this code.

     

    There is no list of compatible/incompatible devices, ... It probably isn't long but then again it is a sign of not being fully "finished" (if such a thing ever exist when we are talking about HA - LOL)

     

    The missing gateway function also suggests, some changes under the hood are still necessary.

     

    And lastly... I noted to DEV team that 3.0 always tries to include devices in S0 mode if S2 fails, afaik "Zip gateway that was required for certification does not allow to disable security.". If all your devices do S2 that is a good thing but if you include ALL your devices in "secure mode" (because, you cannot disable security) then your network will get issues. My info about this dates from April 2021, it might be outdated, but at that time Fibaro seemed to be very confident about the requirement to bootstrap secure mode.

     

    I don't know which of your devices do S2... But most of them support S0. The S0/S2 thing is rarely discussed and rarely relevant because so many gateways like HC2 and HC3 running "2.0 engine" only support S0.

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    2 hours ago, petergebruers said:

    And lastly... I noted to DEV team that 3.0 always tries to include devices in S0 mode if S2 fails, afaik "Zip gateway that was required for certification does not allow to disable security.". If all your devices do S2 that is a good thing but if you include ALL your devices in "secure mode" (because, you cannot disable security) then your network will get issues. 

     

    As of today (5.111.48), the S2/S0/NS looks like following:
     

    S2AccessControl - no way to add without security (or actually the device will not work properly)

    S2Authenticated - NS mode possible for most device, by selecting "Include with S2" and providing magic (wrong) PIN.

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /monthly_2022_06/image.png.54dda102f6983d8f6b16c6b6d5c371f6.png" />
     

    image.png.40da38a03428b850330638d89172d0a5.png



    Note: some devices will fallback to S2Unauthenticated when DSK PIN is wrong, i'm not sure if that's acually allowed, got it only with one specific manufacturer, pre-release firmware, not yet certified.

     


    S2Unauthenticated - NS mode not possible, as one will not get asked for DSK PIN while including with S2.

    S0 - NS mode not possible, as one can't disable S0 on certified Z/IP Gateways, like HC3/HC3L/Yubii etc. Yes, sometimes one can force NS on devices with S0, by powering it off at right time and waiting for timeout :P but that of course hard to reproduce. 

    NS - that option is generally not allowed on certified Z/IP Gateways, like HC3/HC3L/Yubii etc, for all devices that supports S0/S2, except bootstrap failed or device does not support security.

     

    So yeah, one can get some devices without S2/S0, even if they need it. That is sometimes indeed usefull, e.g for associations between devices with (by default) different security levels.

     

    image.png.7dfe8f42a31edfc11808b23b295d8555.png

     

    I have set of really mixed devices on ZW3 engine here, some forced to NS, other leaved with S2 or S0, i decided actually during installation what i need.

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    9 hours ago, tinman said:

    As of today (5.111.48), the S2/S0/NS looks like following

    Thank you for this excellent summary. I think the message for people wanting to reinstall everything in order to switch to "engine 3.0" is this: check your devices for supported security levels and associations. Then make a plan. And check the latest "revision log" for the limitations of the new engine.

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