Using a zniffer to find physical devices 'lost' in wall? (or other ways to find a 'working' device that isn't excluding/including well)

[MrNoTip 2]

I am progressively excluding my HC2 devices and migrating them to HC3, but I have a bunch that seem to not be responding to triple clicks...this was for exclusion initially, but then on re-inclusion after I managed to exclude after the 20th try for one dimmer.

 

I think there are/could be multiple causes here:

• Dodgy switch wiring (there was one light that was finicky even on a directly wired setup and it took ages to even unpair)
• Devices not where I think they are  - behind switchplate - I've already found a few by moving the HC3 closer to the ceiling or pulling a downlight out and seeing a Fibaro device come trailing behind it
• Connected to S2 instead of S1 by lazy sparkies (possible, unverified)
• Devices behind brick external walls/internal insulation, and now part of a much populated HC2 network

 

I plan to wait for a dry/cooler day (aussie summer) to trapse my HC3 around the house to likely candidate points, but it would be easier if I could rely on extenders, a secondary controller (Aeotec Gen 7 with Silicon Labs PC controller*), or even just find the devices myself withmy Aeotec Gen 5 stick, running as a sniffer might be a better approach.

 

 

My questions are:

• Would a sniffer on a USB stick (small, internal antenna) be of any use to try to triangulate the device's location? (I was thinking to monitor the RSSI or something)
• If so, does an excluded/factory fresh device send any z wave signals when interacted with via S1 switches? (I have at least one that is now excluded but still in an unknown location with an unresponsive triple click)
• Do exclusions get passed and processed network wide? Or only in direct range of controller? The 'remove' function lacks an NWI flag. I have added some extenders in the general areas I am having issues, without much change. 
• Can exclusions and inclusions get passedand processed by a secondary controller? If so, do you need to run the process on the secondary (in my case through Silicon labs PC Controller),or start the exclusion on the HC3 and trust the secondary will mediate?
• Would powering down my HC2, Zniffer, Secondary controller make it easier for the HC3 to find devices through a normal include?

*Not sure if relevant, but:

• All of these 'can't exclude' devices are functioning fine on the HC2 network, though I know each one I exclude changes and limits the mess on that network.
• I am running Engine v 3 on the HC3.
• None of the diminishing HC2 networking are security connected, but pretty much all of the HC3 network has been included as S0 or S1.
• The 700 series controller is behaving a bit odd as a secondary for the HC3 compared to the HC2. It's definitely getting included, finding devices etc, but any mapping and node tracing functions seem to get null results or error out. (the standard APIs also get nulls when tracing last route on the HC3 - I need to use the new engine API to get those details....but I didn't think the silicon labs devices would know/care about that?

[MrNoTip 2]

No one's ever lost a unit in their/a client's walls? 😮

[Sankotronic 2,247]

Hi @MrNoTip ,

 

Currently all my z-wave devices, 116 of them are still controlled by my HC2, so I do not have any experience with HC3 z-wave. In all this years since 2015 when I started my HA journey with Fibaro I did have some problems with z-wave like dead devices, vanished (deleted) devices from the HC2 and even two times all devices became unresponsive and not configured. The last one with all devices not configured and unresponsive I managed to resolve with restoring last backup. Since HC2 firmware was updated to 4.630 this never happened again.

 

Other problems was usually caused by failed devices, few Fibaro DW sensors and Fibaro smart plugs. All my devices are installed in the way that is easy reachable and in the case that HC2 fail does not make our life a living hell. This means that everything, except some mood lighting can be controlled usual way, even my gates and garage door. I also decided to never automate my door locks. My main entrance does have electronic lock, but it is opened by RFID on the phone, by long PIN or fingerprint. HC2 does not have any connection to it.

 

When I was rebuilding my z-wave network, I did it by first including mains powered devices, first nearest to the HC2 and then to the last that is further away. Then I did the same with battery operated devices. Since then, I had never problems with my network. Of course what I also did is changed default parameter settings for power metering and other sensor devices to reduce sending measurements as much as possible, where that was possible and was not much needed for proper functioning.

 

When my HC3 will be ready for taking over, I will probably just for fun and my curiosity try to move z-wave devices from HC2 to HC3 with Fibaro transfer configuration, but regardless of the success or failure at the end I will reset and re-include all devices one by one as I did it on HC2. First mains powered devices from inside out and then battery operated. I will also replace some of the remaining old DW sensors, motion sensors and other types of devices with newer ones using at least z-wave 500 chip, since those with z-wave 300 chip I expect that will not work with new HC3 z-wave 3.0. To be honest I'm actually waiting for new HC3 with hopefully z-wave 700 chip.

 

Lastly, I do not like ZigBee and I do not expect any big improvement with that one on HC3. ZigBee will never be better than z-wave in my humble opinion. Only ZigbBee I use is Philips HUE and only for lighting. I do not plan to get any other type of devices like motion sensors or what ever using ZigBee protocol. I know they are cheaper, but I want reliable HA, not the cheap one with tons of problems