OK. Full incompetence of the Fibaro support.

[Guest shapa]

As my system is dead for 6 days already (latest "beta" not working at all, not possible to downgrade), I opened a support case (last Friday)

I specially asked them to check recovery partition (USB flash) for corruption.

Finally, after 5 days, Fibaro support managed to log-in to my Fibaro HC2 just to tell me: "I managed to login. It seems that everything is okay in that part of system.

"

Then they asked me (!!!): "In order to fully diagnose the problem with the control panel Home Center 2 please connect the monitor / TV to VGA or HDMI slot hidden under the aluminum plug cover."

OK, I did that. Guess what? The recovery is not booting as (for sure) the file-system / partition (ext2) is corrupted.

Brilliant. Instead of asking me to do this stupid procedure, they can easily check filesystem remotely.

Finally, I realised that Fibaro software simply not checking FS and in case of damage / USB flash errors you'll be completely unaware that something is really wrong, until you'll try to restore backup or downgrade for example.

Such a stupid design, honestly.

p.s. yes, usb flash is dying, a lot of I/O errors. Looks like flash drive worn out.

p.p.s. I'm angry, very angry. I'll definitely pay back as Fibaro is simply making fun of customers.

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[j.nowacki 5]

shapa, you are right, checking corruption of recovery stick with remote access would be perfectly possible, but viewing a screen while system boots gives you this very information, as well as many others, which might have been crucial for full diagnostic. That is why our consultant asked you for such data. You may call it an overkill from his side, but it was necessary for seeing the big picture. As for the warranty procedure: you will get an update in that matter in ticked you reported.

[Guest shapa]

j.nowacki,

Please keep this words for someone else.

I'm a senior Unix engineer and I know how to debug Linux systems.

Your support is simply not adequate, this is real fact. Again, about 2 seconds to check syslog / kernel messages to identify the issue.

You closed ssh access to the system (it's your decision, not customers) and decided to make our lives much more difficult in case of any troubleshooting.

Instead of 5 second remote procedure you asked me (customer) to make a lot of things (remove HC2 from the hidden media rack, find DVI to HDMI cable, partly disassemble hardware, etc).

Additionally, instead of just sending a new USB flash, you are asking me to send whole HC2 (and to pay for the DHL shipment! At least 50 GPB / 80$ usd) to the Poland.

What the heck I should be paying ANY money for Fibaro mistakes and issues?

This is extremely ridiculous.

"

Dawid Kamrowski 10 Sep 14

Hello.

Our warranty procedure is :

Please send us pack by DHL courier only to address :

Fibar Group Sp. z o.o.

ul. Dąbrowskiego 81/85 hala nr 27

60-529 Poznań

with note „SERWIS”.

To pack please add filled RMA document and copy of sales invoice.

From this moment please contact with [email protected]

Regards"

Are you really serious?

What I'm going to do next is to ask to refund all money spent on Fibaro hardware (I'd say it's about 10$k at least) as it never used to work properly (as promised).

Please learn " European Directive on the Sale of Consumer Goods and Associated Guarantees"

Sure, I'll share this epic story online

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/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> You know, I've got some really long history of relationships with Fibaro.

Right now I'm switching away from HC2 to Indigo6, which works simply brilliant and I don't have any single z-wave issue so far.

Sure, I'll share the process as well.

...

Have fun in Denver, I'm thinking to visit your stand to make some "promotion"

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[deanrparry 19]

Shapa keep me updated how you get on with refund as I have 2 x hc2 and dozens of devices I wouldn't mind sending back as even with stable its not 'stable'

Many thanks...

[j.nowacki 5]

shapa, this is our standard warranty procedure. You can also contact your local FIBARO reseller for help with shipment.

[Guest shapa]

OK,

In case you don't like to go use the easiest way and to calm the situation down, I'm ready

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Sure I will talk with the reseller.

I'm not asking to fix the issue anymore, I'm asking for a full refund.

I'm ready to make it a public case.

Trust me, I'm really ready to make it happens.

Wasted so much time (2 years) trying to make this peace of crap working.

Neither hardware nor software worked properly from a very first moment.

Fibaro support is malicious insults.

Good luck!

[jin 0]

Hi,

I'm in the same situation of shapa, but not so angry about fibaro support right now

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Even my recovery usb pen drive is near to complete corruption, logged in via ssh after entering the recovery mode (because the web server give connection refused when connecting via web browser) and give this dmesg output:

[ 50.529581] scsi 5:0:0:0: Direct-Access FIBARO FIBARO HDD PMAP PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS

[ 52.249538] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] 3911680 512-byte logical blocks: (2.00 GB/1.86 GiB)

[ 52.252642] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off

[ 52.252658] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00

[ 52.252669] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through

[ 52.256900] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through

[ 52.257033] sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3

[ 52.283725] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through

[ 52.283826] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk

[ 506.077189] php5[7670]: segfault at 1000 ip b67ee760 sp bf9989d0 error 4 in libmysqlclient_r.so.16.0.0[b67a2000+1b4000]

[ 1459.053682] EXT4-fs (sdb3): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode

[ 1540.739541] EXT4-fs (sdb1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode

[ 1972.696042] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled sense code

[ 1972.696060] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE

[ 1972.696076] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Sense Key : Medium Error [current]

[ 1972.696094] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error

[ 1972.696111] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 50 36 e0 00 00 18 00

[ 1972.696150] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 5256928

[ 1977.326134] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled sense code

[ 1977.326148] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE

[ 1977.326164] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Sense Key : Medium Error [current]

[ 1977.326181] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error

[ 1977.326199] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 5e 48 00 00 00 20 00

[ 1977.326237] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 6178816

etc...

I kwown, usb pen drives can fail very frequently.

I'm asking to fibaro support team to give me "ONLY" a download link where I can get the latest dd image of recovery operating system, that I can put into a NEW USB pen drive. I don't want give entire fibaro box back, and I don't want a new usb pen drive, I want only download the working image of recovery, so I can put back into a new recovery USB drive.

I don't need fibaro support to make my box working again, but I need to be free to repair my box by my self.

Let's me know fast as you can. Please pm me the link.

Best Regards

[gomba777 2]

Hi,

My house is currently down (+60 physical devices) and my box on its way to Poland.

Here is my experience:

Last week, that may sound strange but a friend clicked on the update link by mistake

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/emoticons/default_icon_curve.gif" alt=":-/" />

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/emoticons/default_icon_sad.gif" alt=":-(" /> we where on remote on home.fibaro.com and we didn't get a chance to cancel the operation! No confirmation required which is I think a bit dangerous...especially when it's an update to beta, may it be crappy...

Then I said "no problem I will recover this evening".... But whenI got home, entering recovery was impossible! I tried without exaggeration 50 times! I also tried to simply restart the box (in 3.907b) but even that took me like 20 tries to restart

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/emoticons/default_icon_cry.gif" alt=":cry:" />

I then contacted support (which reacted quite rapidly) They told me that I corrupted the usb key when I did a copy of the backups on the key and that was the reason my box was down! BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE! I removed the key and tried to copy it ONLY after trying 50 times to restart my box!.

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So now that the key is corrupted support asked me to send back my box to Poland using DHL only! I got the quote from DHL Belgium to send from Belgium to Poland and the price was 189 EURO!!!! So I asked support if I could send it back using normal post and DID NOT RECEIVE A REPLY. So I decided to send it using Belgian BPost which is slower but the price was 32 Euro. Which, I agree with shapa on this, should not be supported by the customer!!!

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/emoticons/default_icon_evil.gif" alt=":evil:" />

I hope I will not have to wait 4 weeks to get it back as all my heating is based on danfoss and horstman which by the way completely stopped functioning in the 3.907b release. And I have lots of remote switches with scenes that are currently down. By chance all associations on S2 on dimmers are still functioning...

side note: My wife is NOT happy...which as some of you may understand is hard to live

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/emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" />)

My experience so far

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[Lauri 6]

From my experience it is always fastest to talk directly with the company who sold you devices. As Fibaro partner in Estonia we are dealing ourself with every single problem - if there was a problem with HC2, we send it to Fibaro ourself and if needed we offer replacement device too.

I think if customers talk to Fibaro directly, then this might be more painful and takes more time on each side.

In my opinion in every warranty case the first contact should be with the reseller/distributor, because they have sold you the devices. If this is not just a web store then they usually should have their technics and people who can help you with smaller issues. And when there is something major (HC2 doesnt respond) then again - they should try to make everything to get it working and if this is not helping then it is their responsibility to discuss with fibaro.

I cant imagine that I send my customers directly to fibaro to resolve issues - this is not something they need to do, this is my responsibility to help my customers.

Lauri

[robmac 173]

Hi,

I'm in the same situation of shapa, but not so angry about fibaro support right now

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Even my recovery usb pen drive is near to complete corruption, logged in via ssh after entering the recovery mode (because the web server give connection refused when connecting via web browser) and give this dmesg output:

[ 50.529581] scsi 5:0:0:0: Direct-Access FIBARO FIBARO HDD PMAP PQ: 0 ANSI: 0 CCS

[ 52.249538] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] 3911680 512-byte logical blocks: (2.00 GB/1.86 GiB)

[ 52.252642] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off

[ 52.252658] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 23 00 00 00

[ 52.252669] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through

[ 52.256900] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through

[ 52.257033] sdb: sdb1 sdb2 sdb3

[ 52.283725] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Assuming drive cache: write through

[ 52.283826] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk

[ 506.077189] php5[7670]: segfault at 1000 ip b67ee760 sp bf9989d0 error 4 in libmysqlclient_r.so.16.0.0[b67a2000+1b4000]

[ 1459.053682] EXT4-fs (sdb3): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode

[ 1540.739541] EXT4-fs (sdb1): mounted filesystem with ordered data mode

[ 1972.696042] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled sense code

[ 1972.696060] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE

[ 1972.696076] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Sense Key : Medium Error [current]

[ 1972.696094] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error

[ 1972.696111] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 50 36 e0 00 00 18 00

[ 1972.696150] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 5256928

[ 1977.326134] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Unhandled sense code

[ 1977.326148] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE

[ 1977.326164] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Sense Key : Medium Error [current]

[ 1977.326181] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error

[ 1977.326199] sd 4:0:0:0: [sda] CDB: Read(10): 28 00 00 5e 48 00 00 00 20 00

[ 1977.326237] end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 6178816

etc...

I know, usb pen drives can fail very frequently.

I'm asking to fibaro support team to give me "ONLY" a download link where I can get the latest dd image of recovery operating system, that I can put into a NEW USB pen drive. I don't want give entire fibaro box back, and I don't want a new usb pen drive, I want only download the working image of recovery, so I can put back into a new recovery USB drive.

I don't need fibaro support to make my box working again, but I need to be free to repair my box by my self.

Let's me know fast as you can. Please pm me the link.

Best Regards

I tried that last year when my pen drive failed.

No luck... they are worried we are going to steal their property but what a bad design that incorporates the dongle with the recovery/backup on the same device.

They claimed they could only give a new dongle by pairing with theHC2 and for some mad reason only if they have the unit.

If you had made a copy of the dongle and a few have, then you would be OK.

Small consolation I know. This reminds me I must make a copy of mine just as a precaution.

Sad thing is they have done this as a protection of their iP but don't realise that if we were really bothered we could still reverse engineer it all. + if I had the time or the inclination I would start with open z-wave as it would take less time.

Strangely enough I can earn more dong my proper job or I would have written my own controller a long time ago.

Good luck and post how you get on.

BTW getting angry has zero impact when I lost it lst year so you will probably have more success your way.

[gomba777 2]

I cant imagine that I send my customers directly to fibaro to resolve issues - this is not something they need to do, this is my responsibility to help my customers.

For info, you can now buy HC2 directly on Amazon! After the 30 days exchange time at amazon, they will redirect you to the manufacturer !

[robmac 173]

Foolish of Fibaro to let Amazon sell.

For non technical people this needs pro install and support + why would anyone be a dealer and support if they are undercut by Amazon.

Anyone thinking of buying from Amazon better not need one on one support.

[Lauri 6]

Foolish of Fibaro to let Amazon sell.

For non technical people this needs pro install and support + why would anyone be a dealer and support if they are undercut by Amazon.

Anyone thinking of buying from Amazon better not need one on one support.

I agree!

[Guest shapa]

To everyone - I'm not going to use Fibaro contollers not a single minute anymore.

Yesterday I (mostly) reconnected all my devices (including Fibaro) (80+ devices) to Indigo 6 and reprogrammed all scenes.

I'm shocked.

It's ultra-fast, ultra-stable, very logical to use. Shame on me I waited so long to try.

100% of my devices (including not supported by fibaro) works fine, even fibaro devices supported better than Fibaro HC2 supports them (!!) (like temperature reading from a smoke alarm, etc).

Additionally:

My philips Hue is supported and working perfectly well

Sonos support is excellent

RFXtrx devices fully supported (hooray - all my "old" devices, thermometers, LWRF switches, etc)

Netamto (!!!) is fully supported (finally I can use all my sensors in a home automation without any hacks)

SMTP is fully configurable

UPS devices are supported

a LOT of other plugins available.

Z-wave pairing is 100% reliable and much easier

Schedulers are excellent, no reason to make any hacks (like lua scheduler, etc)

Triggers / schedules can be cloned (extremely much faster to make new scenes / program logic)

Finally, it works on top of MacOS - very reliable.

Have a look at their forums - developers are really friendly and responsive.

In case of any new unsupported device usually it takes just a few weeks to add support (new minor upgrade)

It is extremely easy to backup configuration (move to another mac mini for example

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Debugs are excellent (very detailed).

GUI "scripts" are very logical and far more advanced, for example "random delays" and so on can be configured.

Python scripts are extremely more powerful than castrated-fibaro-made-lua.

It's like a fresh air after a dirty toilet room.

Only "real" disadvantage - GUI is not so nice (far behind), but from another hand - much more (100%) customisable and there are some really nice designs shared by other users.

Additionally, they are not going to support Z-wave locks (very pricy to pay licensing fees), but they created wonderful VeraBridge plugin which will made all Vera devices "local" - including battery status and all functionality. Very good workaround and works rock-solid stable.

I'm going to share all my experience (how to move away from Fibaro software) online.

p.s. What is really shocking - the whole company is just a few guys. And they made so much better product than Fibaro crap. Outstanding.

Screenshots removed due to forum rules violation, paragraph IIIe

[sjauquet 16]

IF this should happen to ME in the future (loosing all my data and backups and having to pay to recover and having to wait 1 month without domotics) I think I would be as angry as shapa.

Some of us have thousand hours of work on the box.

fibaro, please keep in mind that the HC2 is not a simple consumer product, it's the brain of houses with families, kids, wife's, heating systems, alarms etc. and this kind of support is simply not at the level of the support required to such "critical" devices.

It looks like the corruption of the usb key is well known from fibaro and happens quite often.

Asking to send the complete HC2 is nonsense in 2014 where they can send us in 2 days a new usb key.

The case of Gomba777 is also a pity, knowing that you system is faulty and saying the customer is in fault and corrupted the key just because he inserted it in another computer is an insult to intelligence... OR the system is badly designed OR the support is trying to reject the responsibility to the customer. In booth case shame on fibaro

[Guest shapa]

BTW,

HRT4-ZW is fully supported.

Danfoss valves (new and old) also.

Temperature can be ridden from HRT4-ZW and used in scenes. So good to be true

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Indigo is brilliant...

p.s. it seems Fibaro silently prohibited me to post anything in the new thread I created about migration away from fibaro

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[kiwi 2]

Or maybe that Fibaro should prepare for each of us that have remote acces to Fibaro box an option like "online" backup of the configuration / serial number / protection stuff / what ever that allow us to just find a bloody USB stick and make a dd from a custom backup image that fibaro can provide us.

This is really not difficult to do... Even karotz was doing that...

Please add this to rev 4.X

[Guest shapa]

The issue is that it's not a first time. They already replaced flash once (on my HCL), and I already paid (quite significant) money to send HCL to Poland.

And yes, I lost all my data.

Yes, I spent a LOT of time to make this crap working and I'm extremely angry.

Be ready - you will loose your data - today or in 1 year, but you will.

IF this should happen to ME in the future (loosing all my data and backups and having to pay to recover and having to wait 1 month without domotics) I think I would be as angry as shapa.

Some of us have thousand hours of work on the box.

[ Added: 2014-09-11, 17:28 ]

kiwi,

Users are asking them to do that for years.

Technically - extremely simple to do. Remote SCP procedure, etc.

But they could not fix much easier-to-fix issues (like NTP servers)

I'm honestly thinking that their developers are very unprofessional.

...

I'm so happy that Indigo can be fully backup-up in a few seconds, TimeMachine doing that automatically.

Already tried to move all my automation to another machine - just 1 minute to copy data.

[Scotfree 0]

+1 for all of this. And I sympathise with you Shapa. My USB stick is now corrupt after a power cut and I have to pay to send the box back to Poland for an estimated 3 weeks - utter BS.

Luckily box boots and is usable with the stick unplugged for now. I've purchased a Verlite for 1/5 of the price to assist with turning off and on heating and water and some other essentials. Will have a look at Indigo as well to see if it meets my needs.

Vera is unexpectedly simple/stable after being used to HC2. With some extra LUA in the scenes it does all the stuff that I need, works with all the fibaro devices, although users are having similar teething issues over there with the new UI7.

Seems that if you are happy to ditch all the nice-looking front end, use the console for mostly admin and use remotes/switches for manual controls, Vera does the job just fine.

[deanrparry 19]

FIBARO PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE forget heating! cameras! Speakers... Buttons... Intercoms... Magic scenes that are not actually that magic!

Enable some form of Dropbox integration or cloud backup or similar I am worried now myself its getting far to common!

Thank you

[FredrikN 0]

If I want to do a backup of my key, what is the RIGHT way to do it?