Buzzing LED using Dimmer 2

[Ewgor 0]

 

Hi guys,

I tried to get an answer to my problem on another topic but because no one answered me I decided to create a new topic!

I have a problem with 3 buzzing Leds connected to a dimmer 2. The leds are dimmable, they are 5w each connected to a lamp in which, at this moment I have another 3 halogens bulbs (18w each) so the total watts consumption is around 70w. Before buying the leds, I had 6 halogens which worked perfectly.

When I dimm the light up, all three leds starts to buzz and the noise is increasing as I increase the light intensity!

Right now if I replace the halogens and leave only the leds I'll have only 15 w and I know the minimum required is 25w so I ordered another 3 leds (5w each) to make the test so I'll have 30w which is more than the minimum required 25w! But I'm not sure it will work without this noise.

Could anyone please tell me how to loose the noise? I read some comments that say to modify parameter 20 but how? 

 

Please help! 

Thanks

 0

Edited October 3, 2016 by Ewgor
More details

[RH_Dreambox 179]

I wish I could help you but I dim only LED strips.

I think you can forgot parameter 20. The interesting parameters is between 30 and 40.

Have you done any Auto Calibration?

[petergebruers 1,264]

I agree with RH_Dreambox. To auto-calibrate: set parameter 13 to 1 and wait 1/2 minute (this info is in the manual). You should see the lights dim up/down. If that doesn't help, please try to set p30 to 0 or 1:

 

Parameter 30 Load control mode Forced auto-calibration will set this parameter’s value to 2.

 

0 - forced leading edge control

1 - forced trailing edge control

2 - control mode selected automatically (based on auto-calibration)

 

I don't know about any other parameter that influences "buzzing", sorry...

 

LED strips don't buzz, but the power supplies sometimes do!

[Ewgor 0]

Thanks for the answers, I'll try to set parameters as you said.

Still, do you think that I'll be able to calibrate the dimmer 2 having two different types of bulbs? (3 halogens and 3 leds) or should I get another 3 leds to have only one type of bulbs?

I'm afraid not to burn the dimmer or to get it melted in the wall as I saw someone here on the forum sharing this ugly experience.

On the other hand, I'd prefer not spending money on the led if they will buzz knowing that leds are maybe 10 times more expensive that the halogens, but if they will work I'm ok with that.

Thanks!

PS: I heard there's a list of the compatible leds with Fibaro dimmer 2 but I couldn't find it online, mine are from a brand called Lumen, maybe they are not on the compatibility list?

Edited October 4, 2016 by Ewgor
More info

[petergebruers 1,264]

- You can try the parameters even with mixed bulb types. It is not recommended to mix types, because, probably, one setting will be good for the one type but less optimal for the other. But you won't damage the dimmer, nor the lamps.

 

- Dimmer 2 is  virtually indestructible. It has various protections and there have been no reports of melted dimmers. I have short circuited and overloaded them for testing and they survived. Dimmer 1 used different technology, that could drive loads up to 500 Watt (instead of 250 W for dimmer 2) and it used a different technology. I have seen a few reports of melted version 1 dimmers, but I guess Fibaro sold tons of those.

 

- Buzzing is also a property of lamp type and manufacturing quality. Halogen bulbs buzz, because the way they are dimmed induces rapid thermal changes and that makes the filament vibrate. Some LED and some CFL sometimes buzz, probably due to a different power supply type in the lamp and/or different EMC (electro-magnetic-compatibility) filtering. Trying a reputed brand might help.

 

- In theaters they now use LED, but switched at very high frequencies with high frequency power supplies, so they produce noise outside our hearing range. But then, sometimes they need to add fans to cool all that neat stuff so even then it's difficult to get really "noiseless". Before the LEDs, theaters sometimes used (very expensive) "high frequency" halogen dimmers. As far as I know, that technology does not exist for home use.

 

- All dimmers for home use, work with leading and/or trailing edge dimming so switching to a different brand won't help...

 

- Getting a RGBW and a LED strip will work if you have a good, noiseless power supply or if you can put the power supply in a different place (but not more than 1-2 meters away). Up to 150 W supplies can be fan-less. But 300 W and above tend to have fans. Check the data sheet. Of course, 150 W LED strip is the equivalent of about 750 W halogen light, so that's quite some lumens...

[Ewgor 0]

Oh man, thanks for the detailed answer.

The thing is that I used halogens (6 pcs) before trying LEDs and I didn't have any noise issue. The problem was that with 6 bulbs of 18w I didn't have enough light in the room and to get more light I had to increase the power consumption of them to 24w but still not enough light and a lot of power consumed and so I decided to choose LEDs.

I don't have any power supply for this lamp because it takes all the power from the main electricity circuit so here I'm talking about a ceiling lamp with 6 bulbs that use 220v!

Anyhow, I'll try to adjust the parameters as you suggested and I'll come with news, hopefully for me good news

Thanks again!

[petergebruers 1,264]

Ah yes, LED and CFL can be LOUDER than halogen. My halogen bulbs are 40 to 78 W so they are noisier than your 18 W types. I have absolutely nothing to gain from this, but I like the "Philips Warm Glow" LED series because they are very quiet and their dimming range is almost like that of a halogen... Some LED, notably the ones from IKEA I bought a few years ago don't dim down very well.

[Sankotronic 2,132]

Sorry that my post will not be useful to you, but after sometime playing with dimmer 2 I have to write that Fibaro engineers have to go back to lab and do something about it or at lest they should give exact list of supported bulbs because this is ridiculous device. If I turn on washing machine they start flickering. If I use drilling machine then it is even worse, then they turn off/ on randomly. To be honest I'm afraid to fart in my house again just not to get dimmer 2 upset!

[petergebruers 1,264]

25 minutes ago, Sankotronic said:

Sorry that my post will not be useful to you, but after sometime playing with dimmer 2 I have to write that Fibaro engineers have to go back to lab and do something about it or at lest they should give exact list of supported bulbs because this is ridiculous device. If I turn on washing machine they start flickering. If I use drilling machine then it is even worse, then they turn off/ on randomly. To be honest I'm afraid to fart in my house again just not to get dimmer 2 upset!

 

I'm sorry to hear that you have such a bad experience. Not everyone has all these issues, for instance, I don't have them. But I can simulate it! The only explanation that I can come up with is that there are different electrical parameters at play. I have been active in several topics, regarding several possible issues, and I think I need to summarize it all one day. I'll try a super fast summary. If you have 2 or more switches connected to S1, under certain conditions, the dimmer may shut off after 1 second. Greatly reduced from firmware 3.3 onwards. Dimmer may shut down for a few seconds after you plug in a vacuum or a laptop supply... greatly reduced with firmware 3.4. Also, sensitivity to disturbances depends on the lamp type and wether leading or trailing edge has been selected. Some users report sensitivity to pulses injected by the power company (to control, for instance, day/night). Don't know the latest on this issue though. Also, if possible, use 3-wire setup. It reduces for instance turn-off with low loads (alternative: tune the parameters). If you are an electronics guy and want to try something, contact me via PM.

[Sankotronic 2,132]

Thanks petergebruers for reaction. I have read all your posts on this matter on this forum. Most of my dimmer 2 are connected in 3 wire system except on two places where it was just impossible due to missing wire. Any way, I was playing with parameters but it didn't do much help and all because it's own calibration doesn't do good job in some cases.

 

I'm due to leave my home for work for month or two, but I will contact you when I'm back home to see what we can do if it's ok with you, and thanks for the offer.

[Cameleon 17]

18 hours ago, Sankotronic said:

 To be honest I'm afraid to fart in my house again just not to get dimmer 2 upset!

Not often I actually laugh out loud to comments, but that one got me some strange looks in the office when reading it!  

[Ewgor 0]

On 03.10.2016 at 9:26 PM, petergebruers said:

I agree with RH_Dreambox. To auto-calibrate: set parameter 13 to 1 and wait 1/2 minute (this info is in the manual). You should see the lights dim up/down. If that doesn't help, please try to set p30 to 0 or 1:

 

Parameter 30 Load control mode Forced auto-calibration will set this parameter’s value to 2.

 

0 - forced leading edge control

1 - forced trailing edge control

2 - control mode selected automatically (based on auto-calibration)

 

I don't know about any other parameter that influences "buzzing", sorry...

 

LED strips don't buzz, but the power supplies sometimes do!

Hi, 

Sorry but only today I had time to test your advices but I have some questions because I'm using Habmin to set the Fibaro 212 dimmer:

1. P13 (force auto-calibration) I have two options:

- readout

- force auto-calibration of the load using advanced parameter

2. P30 (load control mode) I have three options:

- forced leading edge control

- forced trailing edge control

- control mode selected automatically (based on auto-calibration)

so on p13 I have 1st option selected and on p30 I have 3rd option selected, should I choose other options? or it's ok to leave them like this?

There would be another question: 

P1 (minimum brightness lvl) is set to 1 and P2(maximum brightness lvl) is set to 57. These are the values resulted on auto-calibration I guess because I didn't set any value for this node! It is ok like this?

Thanks for answering me.

 

PS: @Sankotronic you're crazy man  but I understand you perfectly ... I was laughing alone on my balcony reading your post

[petergebruers 1,264]

Choose "force auto-calibration of the load using advanced parameter". Then he system might ask if you have a bypass. If you don't know the answer, try "without bypass" first. If that doesn't help, choose "with bypass". You can't damage anything. Calibration takes about 30 seconds. During that time, the module does not send or receive Z-Wave commands.

 

P13 resets itself to "0" so please trye "readout" of parameters after calibration (30 seconds).

 

The values you see are indeed the numbers from last readout & calibration. You typically see a variation of maybe 1 or 2 points. So P2 might end up at 58 instead of 57, that's normal.

 

There is no list of lamp types and typical values... All I can say is... "57" is on the low side, but will probably work. It hints to me that you are using a 2-wire setup (see manual) and that you might get better results (for dimming, not necessarily for buzzing) if you can change it to a 3-wire setup. It also suggests to me that you have low watt bulbs (you confirmed that in earlier posts) and that they might have a limited dimming range.

 

Good luck!

[Ewgor 0]

1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

Choose "force auto-calibration of the load using advanced parameter". Then he system might ask if you have a bypass. If you don't know the answer, try "without bypass" first. If that doesn't help, choose "with bypass". You can't damage anything. Calibration takes about 30 seconds. During that time, the module does not send or receive Z-Wave commands.

 

P13 resets itself to "0" so please trye "readout" of parameters after calibration (30 seconds).

 

The values you see are indeed the numbers from last readout & calibration. You typically see a variation of maybe 1 or 2 points. So P2 might end up at 58 instead of 57, that's normal.

 

There is no list of lamp types and typical values... All I can say is... "57" is on the low side, but will probably work. It hints to me that you are using a 2-wire setup (see manual) and that you might get better results (for dimming, not necessarily for buzzing) if you can change it to a 3-wire setup. It also suggests to me that you have low watt bulbs (you confirmed that in earlier posts) and that they might have a limited dimming range.

 

Good luck!

Man, I did what you said on P13 and I can say after this new autocalibration I get lower noise but still I have the noise and the dimmer reacts like this: dimming from 0% - 100% the noise is loud and at 100% is less loud than 50%! Before this calibration the noise was increasing as I was increasing the light intensity fro 0-100% where I got maximum noise, now it's up side down  

After this calibration of P13 the P1 bacame 15 and P2 became 70!

Also I don't have a bypass and the P13 came back to readout after the calibration as you said.

About the way that Dimmer to is installed, well, i really don't remember how I installed (because I did the installation) in 2 or three wires but I know that I don't have a neutral wire in the wall (the neutral came back from the ceiling lamp in the wall socket) and in the wall I had 2 dead wires and 1 alive and I followed the diagram and connected the 2 dead wires to S1 and the alive one to L because I have only one impulse button and I made bridge between Sx and N. I also used another wire from the impulse button to Sx.

How to switch to 3 wires connection if I don't have the neutral wire from the main panel coming in the wall switch?

I don't know if my explanation is understandable but I hope so

Thanks!

Edited October 6, 2016 by Ewgor
More info.