Help with FGFS-101 Flood Sensor with SmartThings Hub

[WizKid 0]

I am using the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor with the SmartThings v2 Hub.

 

I was able to link the sensor to the SmartThings Hub without difficulty. (Although, I get a message saying that it failed to complete the network security exchange.)

 

Despite the warning above, the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor it Is correctly reporting what condition the sensor is in to my iPhone within a few seconds of getting wet.  But in reading through the FGFS-101 manual there are various parameters that can be set on the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor that I seem to be incapable of performing on my iPhone utilizing the SmartThings Hub. Is this correct?

[petergebruers 1,268]

1 hour ago, WizKid said:

I am using the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor with the SmartThings v2 Hub.

 

I was able to link the sensor to the SmartThings Hub without difficulty. (Although, I get a message saying that it failed to complete the network security exchange.)

 

Despite the warning above, the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor it Is correctly reporting what condition the sensor is in to my iPhone within a few seconds of getting wet.  But in reading through the FGFS-101 manual there are various parameters that can be set on the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor that I seem to be incapable of performing on my iPhone utilizing the SmartThings Hub. Is this correct?

 

A Z-Wave device does not tell the controller which parameters exist. The controller (so your SmartThings hub) has to "detect" what kind of device it is and if someone has to write some sort of description/program/template - whatever it is called on your controller, probably a "Device Handler" or "DH" or "DTH". So it is "not a Fibaro thing". I checked the SmartThings forum and I suspect this is your post:

 

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Let us see if that community picks up your message.

 

It seems it is not as easy as you might think, this topic offers some background on setting parameters (something that is quite easy to do on almost any other controller):

 

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It seems SmartThings community shares "DTH" on a sub-forum, but as far as I can tell there is no FIbaro Flood sensor.

 

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This is as much as I can tell, without owning such a hub...

 

[WizKid 0]

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Some of your suggestions are over my head. I have no idea what a "DTH" a sub-forum is.

 

Every time I look at the FGFS-101 flood sensor status on the iPhone SmartThings app I get a Pop-Up warning that reads as follows.  "FGFS failed to complete the network security key exchange. If you're unable to receive data from it, you must remove it from your network and add again."  Well, I am receiving data from it. I guess I will just have to endure this warning forever.

 

Also, the FGFS-101 manual describes many features and setups I am interested in. But I can find no way to make any of these adjustments using the iPhone SmartThings app.  The iPhone SmartThings app DOES send an alert to me when sensor reports "wet".  I have a Z-Wave valve on order.  It is my intention to have the FGFS-101 flood sensor communicate with the valve to shut off my water in the event of a leak.

[petergebruers 1,268]

17 minutes ago, WizKid said:

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Some of your suggestions are over my head. I have no idea what a "DTH" a sub-forum is.

 

Every time I look at the FGFS-101 flood sensor status on the iPhone SmartThings app I get a Pop-Up warning that reads as follows.  "FGFS failed to complete the network security key exchange. If you're unable to receive data from it, you must remove it from your network and add again."  Well, I am receiving data from it. I guess I will just have to endure this warning forever.

 

Also, the FGFS-101 manual describes many features and setups I am interested in. But I can find no way to make any of these adjustments using the iPhone SmartThings app.  The iPhone SmartThings app DOES send an alert to me when sensor reports "wet".  I have a Z-Wave valve on order.  It is my intention to have the FGFS-101 flood sensor communicate with the valve to shut off my water in the event of a leak.

 

I think you are fairly new to Z-Wave. If you are not new, I apologise for going to explain some basic things that you already know.

 

I think you assume that a Z-Wave device is "self descriptive" and that if you see it reporting "flood" then *everything else* should be visible/accessible/supported on your iPhone. Unfortunately, it does not work that way.

 

Every Z-Wave device implements some "basic" function. Your flood sensor implements a basic "alarm", so SmartThings will show that basic alarm. Does that explain why at least something works? I mean, if you bought "a flood sensor from any brand" it would show one thing: flood on/off. But no settings! Any switch looks like a switch, any dimmer like a dimmer. But extra's, like "setting a minimum dimming level" is beyond that basic functionality. 

 

Settings aka PARAMETERS need support on your controller. It has nothing to do with the fact that your controller can show you "flood yes/no" . It seems your controller does not know the specific sensor "FGFS-101" - so it does not display any configuration options. That is the way Z-Wave works. Basic functionality is supported by all devices and all controllers. Showing a nice configuration page, with all the parameters and what they mean, is optional and depends on support on your controller, by the manufacturer of the controller.

 

The way I understand it, SmartThings can show you settings, if someone has written a "handler" for your device.

 

So go ahead and ask on this forum if someone has written a device handler for your device:

 

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As you can see, there is already a long list of devices, with community supported handlers. Take for example the "Aeon WallMote Dual & Quad - 2 & 4 Button". It is a fairly recent product. If you would buy one of those, you would get the same problem as with your flood sensor. The device would support some basic stuff, but you cannot change settings or use all functions. If you install the device handler, posted on that forum, you will get more functionality. These "handlers" often evolve, and they are a community effort, so do are not always final or complete. Regarding the WallMote, a user writes: "My understanding is that the (awesome) person who wrote the code that handles this device did not include slide functionality.". So, even after implementing that handler, some things do not work. Unfortunately, I cannot tell you how you install a handler. But I think that is not the point, the point is that either nobody has written a handler for the FGFS-101 or we are both unable to find one...

 

So, to summarise, your *controller* does not know how to set parameters for the device. If you want to know how to fix that, you will have to study and understand your SmartThings controller.

 

I *do* understand your question, but I do not own a SmartThings hub. So I cannot explain in detail how you can add a device handler to your hub. You really have to ask it on the SmartThings forum. Fibaro cannot help you to add parameters to a SmartThings hub. It is not a problem of the device. It is not the fault of the device.  It is a controller thing.

 

You can ask your question here, of course, some forum members use a SmartThings hub... but I think it is a minority here...

[WizKid 0]

>>  I think you are fairly new to Z-Wave. <<

I have been using Z-Wave switches for about three years.   ( I have about 20 Piper Z-Wave Smart Switch RZW-SS-NA and Aeotec DSC24-ZW switches ) with excellent results.  I've configured various simple programming.

 

>>  Settings aka PARAMETERS need support on your controller. It has nothing to do with the fact that your controller can show you "flood yes/no" . It seems your controller does not know the specific sensor "FGFS-101"  <<

 

When I "ADDED" the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor SmartThings immediately identified it as a "Fibaro Flood Sensor ZW5".  Also, SmartThings has a couple of web-pages up completely dedicated to utilizing the FGFS-101 Flood Sensor.  

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The website is devoted to people having difficulty pairing the unit with SmartThings.  I had no difficulty pairing the unit.

 

>>  The way I understand it, SmartThings can show you settings, if someone has written a "handler" for your device.  <<

I found this. 

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But there's conflicting information on this website as to whether it is compatible with my unit. It says it is compatible with the FGFS-101, but NOT compatible with "ZW5".  My FGFS-101 is a "ZW5" !?

 

>>  It is a controller thing.  <<

I understand. Actually I'm glad I came to this forum. You've been very helpful to me and I appreciate that.

 

Interestingly, the SmartThings app is is now telling me that the FGFS-101 has been unavailable for 12 hours. I was assuming this is because the flood sensor goes into a low-power state to conserve batteries. But I thought I would "check in" periodically.  The manual states it has a 6 hour wake up interval. So I'm concerned about the unavailable for 12 hours.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

3 minutes ago, WizKid said:

But there's conflicting information on this website as to whether it is compatible with my unit. It says it is compatible with the FGFS-101, but NOT compatible with "ZW5".  My FGFS-101 is a "ZW5" !?

 

 

That might explain things. You can find out by looking at the firmware version of your sensor:

 

"3.x" and probably exactly "3.2" (Z-Wave+ compatible). I guess this is what they mean by "ZW5"

2.x  = older version

 

You can find the manual here:

 

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There are subtle differences, for instance, I quote from the manual, for waking up the device:

 

"triple click the TMP button located inside the housing. (version 2.6 or lower)"

"click the TMP button (version 3.2 or higher)"

 

9 minutes ago, WizKid said:

Interestingly, the SmartThings app is is now telling me that the FGFS-101 has been unavailable for 12 hours. I was assuming this is because the flood sensor goes into a low-power state to conserve batteries. But I thought I would "check in" periodically.  The manual states it has a 6 hour wake up interval. So I'm concerned about the unavailable for 12 hours.

 

The default interval is 6 hours indeed. Does SmartThings update if you trigger the device? Alternatively, does it update if you wake up the device?

[WizKid 0]

>>  You can find out by looking at the firmware version of your sensor:  <<

 

How do I do this with the SmartThings Hub ?

 

>>  The default interval is 6 hours indeed. Does SmartThings update if you trigger the device? Alternatively, does it update if you wake up the device? <<

 

If the sensor gets wet, I get an immediate notification on my iPhone. I guess that's an update?

 

The SmartThings app gives a warning that reads as follows.  "FGFS failed to complete the network security key exchange. If you're unable to receive data from it, you must remove it from your network and add again."  Well, I am receiving data from it. Will I have to endure this warning forever ?

 

I plan on connecting an external power source, and an external water probe to your sensor.  I guess I drill my own holes in the case to bring the wires out.

[petergebruers 1,268]

9 hours ago, WizKid said:

>>  You can find out by looking at the firmware version of your sensor:  <<

 

How do I do this with the SmartThings Hub ?

 

I do not know. Can't you get some advanced properties or diagnostic info from SmartThings? Every device has a firmware version, the format is standardised. In Z-Speak: "Application Version" and: "Application Sub Version" - they might call it like that but colloquially it's called "firmware version". It is almost always written as X.Y, like "3.2".

 

9 hours ago, WizKid said:

If the sensor gets wet, I get an immediate notification on my iPhone. I guess that's an update?

 

 

Z-Wave has to very different kinds of what you call "an update". This is about battery operated devices. Mains operated device are always online and can always receive and initiate communications. To conserve power, battery operated devices have their receiver turned off. If they did not do that, they would drain batteries in a few days. So, they cannot receive commands if they sleep.

 

- An unsolicited report. The device sends a status change. For instance "flood detected". The device does not accept ANY form of command. This is to conserve batteries. A battery operated motion sensor will send "safe" and "breached". When a device is reporting, it does *not* accept parameters (settings). So even these reports can be very frequent, they are also very specific and very limited in function. A notification can take less than 0.1 second.

 

- A "wake-up". This is specificThis happens at the wake up interval. Or when you perform a certain click rhythm on the button of the device. When a device wakes up, it sends a command to the controller telling "I am ready to exchange data" then stays awake to receive commands. Typical wake-up is "a few seconds every X hours". It takes longer, so uses more power than a notification. You will be able to change parameters. The controller can poll data, for instance, configuration of the device or values of all sensors (e.g. temperature on a motion sensor or flood sensor).

 

I do not know how the SmartThings controller uses both mechanisms to determine if a device is not updating aka "dead".  I am not even 100% sure how a Fibaro HomeCenter does it, but I think it marks a device "dead" if it has missed a few wake up intervals.

 

9 hours ago, WizKid said:

"FGFS failed to complete the network security key exchange. If you're unable to receive data from it, you must remove it from your network and add again."

 

I am unsure what the message means. It does mention "security" and if you have the opportunity to re-include the device, maybe check if you can choose between "secure" and "non-secure". For sensors that do not open or close doors and for door locks I recommend "secure". All other types of sensors and actors: "non-secure".

 

9 hours ago, WizKid said:

I plan on connecting an external power source, and an external water probe to your sensor.  I guess I drill my own holes in the case to bring the wires out.

 

In that case you must follow the proper procedure to (cleanly) remove (exclude) the device from SmartThings first. Then remove the cell and connect the external power supply. And after that you can add (include) the device . If you do not follow this advice, and it is applicable to all devices that can be battery or mains operated, the controller will still think the device runs on batteries. A clear sign of this is on the controller, the device still has a "wake up interval". If is on permanent power, the controller must not offer this setting, because those devices do not wake up.

Edited September 8, 2017 by petergebruers

[WizKid 0]

>>  the device still has a "wake up interval"  <<

 

As best I can tell this doesn't work on the FGFS-101Flood Sensor.  The manual says it "checks in" with the SmartThinks hub every 6 hours.  SmartThings is telling me it hasn't heard from the flood sensor in 19 hours. Which is the last time I performed a moisture test. 

 

>>  you must follow the proper procedure to (cleanly) remove (exclude)  <<

 

I have successfully performed this overly complicated procedure in the past. In fact, I have successfully excluded "things" when I didn't have the "thing" anymore!

 

Disappointed I have to drill holes in order to wire up a external power supply and a remote sensor. Holes are easy to drill but this device is small making this process harder to do. Also, I read reviews on Amazon where people add an external power supply and say that the internal battery now serves as a backup.

 

Some good news anyway.  I now have the FGFS-101Flood Sensor working with the  “Leak Intelligence” a.k.a. Leak Gopher Z-Wave water valve.  SmartThings iPhone app.  Smart Home Monitor > Leaks. There is a option to Close Valves. Can also alert you, turn on lights, etc.

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

5 hours ago, WizKid said:

As best I can tell this doesn't work on the FGFS-101Flood Sensor.  The manual says it "checks in" with the SmartThinks hub every 6 hours.  SmartThings is telling me it hasn't heard from the flood sensor in 19 hours. Which is the last time I performed a moisture test. 

 

Try to set a different interval, for instance 7200 (= 2hours). My FGFS definitely wakes up every X hours depending on what I set at "wake up interval". Tested on a Fibaro HC2 and a RaZberry .controller (the log says "device awake" ever X hours)...

 

5 hours ago, WizKid said:

I have successfully performed this overly complicated procedure in the past. In fact, I have successfully excluded "things" when I didn't have the "thing" anymore!

 

 

We cannot be referring to the same procedure! It is *very simple* to exclude a device on my controllers (I have 4 different controllers)! When you say "overly complicated" you are certainly referring to something completely different...

• On the controller, select "exclude" or "delete" depending on what it is called on your controller.
• Click or 3-click the button on the device, depending on the model. Please check the manual of the device.

Done!

 

So it is like add/include...

 

You can repeat this procedure as many times as you like on *any controller* with *any device*. It also *resets* the device, this is mandated by Z-Wave specification. So in 99,99% of all cases, there is no need to perform a reset procedure on *any* Z-Wave device. In fact, it is not recommended to reset at all. Use the very simple exclude procedure instead!

 

If I were to send you a device that was included on MY network, you would not be able to immediately include it on your network. Do not reset the device, that is too complicated! On YOUR controller, select "exclude" or "delete" then "click or 3-click the button on the device". Your controller will exclude MY device, reset it to defaults and it will be ready to be included on your controller! Any controller can exclude any device...

 

Failing to follow the exclusion procedure may lead to inconsistent configuration of your controller (orphaned devices). Resetting a device does not clean up the mess, so always use exclusion.

 

5 hours ago, WizKid said:

Disappointed I have to drill holes in order to wire up a external power supply and a remote sensor. Holes are easy to drill but this device is small making this process harder to do. Also, I read reviews on Amazon where people add an external power supply and say that the internal battery now serves as a backup.

 

It is annoying, but the sensor was designed to float in case of flooding. That is why there are no holes.

Yes, battery serves as backup

 

Please let me repeat a very important point from the manual:

 

Quote

Switching to constant voltage powering mode:

Remove (delete, exclude) the sensor from the Z-Wave network. Do not reset the sensor.

Connect constant voltage power source (12/24 VDC) to +12 and GnD terminals in accordance with „Diagrams and connection” on page 7.

Add the sensor to the Z-Wave network.

 

If you want to switch back to battery (without constant power source), repeat that procedure. Yes, this procedure is very annoying, but that is how Z-Wave works. All battery operated devices have this issue.

 

5 hours ago, WizKid said:

Some good news anyway.  I now have the FGFS-101Flood Sensor working with the  “Leak Intelligence” a.k.a. Leak Gopher Z-Wave water valve.  SmartThings iPhone app.  Smart Home Monitor > Leaks. There is a option to Close Valves. Can also alert you, turn on lights, etc.

 

I'm glad you are making progress!

Edited September 9, 2017 by petergebruers