RGBW 0-10V input not working

[mvrekum 2]

Hi,

I have a

Please login or register to see this link.

connected to a RGBW controler. This light sensor has an output of 0-10V. So you should think it would work perfectly with the RGBW controler.

Input 1 is set to 0-10V. If the lightsensor is covered, so completely dark, the output is 0 Volt, not connected to anything. However, once connected to the RGBW controler the output will not drop below 1.8 Volt in complete darkness.

Also input 2 is configured as an nrmal dimmer input. On this input I have a

Please login or register to see this link.

connected. This has a simple relay as output that shorts the RGBW input to ground. When activated the device screen (its a dimmer input) shows a dim level of 68% (should be 100% since the input is shorted to ground)

Question: is my RGBW device defective or am i doing something wrong? This way the light sensor is absolutely useless. I can live with the rain sensor however.

Btw, I am using these sensors to control my awning. It automaticly goes down when there is enough sunlight and goes up when sunlight goes away or when it starts raining. I still have to add a windsensor.

[Dino 0]

I also have a RGBW module for 0-10v input. On input one I have a Sensair C02 sensor with 0-10v analog out. That works fine. The value on the display of the co2 meter is the same as HC2.

But on input 2 I have a merten (knx) 0-10v out wind sensor. I can't get it to work.

The windsensor mensuren 0,7 - 40 m/s with range of 0-10v. Not connected to the figaro module I measure 0,8v no wind. So in the configuration of module I have said start at 0,8v showing a value of 0,7 m/s and at 10v show 40 m/s.

It now shows 1.99 m/s with no wind which in my impression should be 0,7 m/s.

So one device is working properly and one isn't. Could it be that KNX devices, yours is a loxone device, with 0-10v are doing something divergent.

[mvrekum 2]

Could it be that KNX devices, yours is a loxone device, with 0-10v are doing something divergent.

I do not know. I think that the 0-10V output of sensors is standardized. I just wonder if the RGBW module is following this standard.

I need the Loxone light sensor because of it's range. It can measure up to 100000 lux. I have my scene set to 12500 lux (I do not know what the exact value is, but this is what the RGBW module transmits) before the awning opens. I have found no other light sensor that can measure this. FYI here is a table of lux values:

Please login or register to see this code.

My awning should open in direct sunlight, so around 32000 lux.

Anyway, I have send an email to support with the same question. Let's wait for the answer.

[Dino 0]

I also asked Fibaro (many times) and Merten support. No answer yet.

Let us know what you find out. As you suggest it is strange that two well known companies have a 0-10v out sensor that does not works properly with a Fibaro RGBW module.

[ Added: 2014-03-18, 17:14 ]

Did some testing.

Wind sensor connected only wit the power adapter 24v no wind and the output is as it should 0v. When wind is increasing the output goes up as well. Checked the output with a local weatherstation and measurments seams right. So it is not a defectiee merten wind sensor.

When connected with Fibaro RGBW the output with no wind is 0.830v which should be 0v.

[ Added: 2014-03-20, 09:56 ]

mvrenkum - did you get an answer from Fibaro? I did not and send them again an e-mail this morning.

Did some testing with my CO2 0-10v sensor and this is my assumption for know.

Problem: For some reason the start voltage of the sensor is raised when connected to the Fibaro RGBW module.

But My impression is that whe the sensor connected to the RGBW Module and measuring a value which has an voltage of more than 0,834 (my sensor start voltage done by the Fibaro Module, think your startvoltage is 1,8) the RGBW Module receives the right value.

The last impression I have made based on my CO2 0-10v sensor. Not connected to the RGBW is gives a 4,4v measurement which is the same as when connected to the RGBW module.

I can't test low voltage output of the CO2 as it probably will never reach a 0 PPM so an 0v output.

=========================================================

Whem the Windsensor is connected to the Fibaro RGBW Module the wind sensor starts with 0,834v when it is not moving at all. It should be 0v. When I disconect the RGBW module and only have the Power Adapter Attached it gives 0v. So what happens. For some reason the start voltage of the sensor is raised when connected to the Fibaro RGBW module.

=========================================================

Why does the RGBW module raise the voltage at startpoint?

[mvrekum 2]

@Dino

Still no answer from support. I see Krystian wants to give an answer soon. So I wait.

[Dino 0]

I have had contact with Merten. Indeed there are different 0-10v standards.

You have an Analog standard/protocol (Used for many KNX devices) and you have a 0-10 vdc protocol.

In the manual the follwowing is stated:

Inputs/sensors set to work in analog mode require following configuration:

- Actual voltage range (e.g. 0-10V, 1-10V, 0-5V)

- Measured unit range (e.g. 0-50oC for temperature sensor)

I am not an expert but my understanding based upon the conversation with merten the 0-10v stated in the fibaro manuaal is a " Analog 0-10v". The 1-10v and 0-5V are so called VDC 0-10v standards.

So I think, based upon what is stated in the manuaal, the fibaro supports all standards but the pure "Analog" 0-10v has a + and a - 0-10v wir output. The Fibaro has just one wier 0-10v input.

Anyway still no news from fibaro so I am just making this up myself.

@Krystian - what is ASAP for you

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" /> Please reply to many people and time is gone figuring out what the module is doing. please reply.

[mvrekum 2]

I found out so far that you have to make the cables between the sensor and the module as short as possible. Although I do not believe that the voltage drop over a few meters of cable can be that problematic, well it shouldn't be.

I have shortened my cables to about 30 cm (was about 5 meters). That at least made the rain sensor work better. It first reported a dim level of 68% when the switch was closed. Now it is 99%. So that works fine.

The light sensor however still does not work correctly. I am currently looking for an interface circuit I could build between the two devices. I will post any updates.

[erdek 0]

I'm still looking for a suitable windmeter/anemometer with 0-10V output, as far as I can tell the Schneider and Mertens devices are all very expensive, over 400 euros. That's a little too much for trial and error, any advice which device will work?

[mvrekum 2]

I have got an answer from Fibaro support:

Dear Sir,

Sorry for delay answer. We checked this situation. Usually the 0-10V sensor are passive outputs and this device works with RGBW module. But the 0-10 V has active outputs and this sensor doesn’t full support with our module. I afraid that this sensor has electronic with active 0-10 V output.

So now I have to find a solution to convert active to passive signals. The story continuous...

[Dino 0]

Merten and Schneider will not work with the Fibaro RGBW module. The answer form fibaro on my problems with the merten windsensor is the following:

The Fibaro RGBW device only supports passive 0-10v output. As the Merten Wind sensor is an active 0-10v output it will not work.

So watch out when you buy any 0-10v sensor it should be passive!! Have asked Fibaro how you could recognize when a sensor is active or passive. When they answer I will post it. It is important as many devices are offert as analog 0-10v output but not many are mentioning if it is passieve or active.

Or has anybody a suggestion on how to make a active 0-10v output passive?

[erdek 0]

Thanks guys, I just did a support request to Fibaro asking for specific models that will work. I'll post the answer here.

[Dino 0]

I am looking at this wind sensor, accoding to French website it should work

First Rate Hunan FST200-201 Weather station wind speed sensor

Please login or register to see this link.

I am trying to get it direct form china (price 48 dollars minimum quantity 10 pièces) and asked the French website if they ship to the Netherlands (100 euro excl shopping)

[ Added: 2014-04-06, 17:22 ]

I need two so if we have 8 persons from the Netherlands I will take the risk of buying 10 pièces.

Just let me know.

[erdek 0]

Great, count me in for one!

[Dino 0]

I have bought the servodan lux sensor. According to the Fibaro brochure it should work.

Servodan 43-198

Please login or register to see this link.

[ Added: 2014-04-06, 17:28 ]

Would be nice if an expert on the forum could explain to us the whole story about the different 0-10v standards. And what would work with the Fibaro Module.

Thanks in advance

[mvrekum 2]

Wrote a mail to Loxone support. Maybe they can/will help.

[ Added: 2014-04-07, 10:07 ]

Would be nice if an expert on the forum could explain to us the whole story about the different 0-10v standards. And what would work with the Fibaro Module.

Thanks in advance

Actualy it is simple. The Fibaro input is passive, which means that the module provides the "sensor" with 10 Volts. This way you can connect a potentiometer as sensor.

An active output means that the sensor supplies the controller with a 0-10V signal. So in our situation we have a sensor and a controller that both supply each other with 10V. And that will not work.

I am currently looking for a solution by placing an optocoupler inbetween to make a galvanic isolation. Just haven't found the right type yet. Still looking. Won't take long.

[hvb83 1]

I would be interested Dino, count me in! I would use it for retracting my sun screens automatically, in that case the 50 km/h (7 bft) limit should be more than enough.

Good to see that the confusion has been solved about what's causing these issues. Although I must admit it's not completely clear to me yet how to identify if a 0-10 V sensor will actually work with the RGBW or not.

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" />

[mvrekum 2]

Dino, count me in too. I need only 1.

@hvb83: You need a device with passive output. Look in the manual or ask the supplier before you buy.

[kooy 5]

I need two so if we have 8 persons from the Netherlands I will take the risk of buying 10 pièces.

Just let me know.

count me in too for 1

[hvb83 1]

Thanks for the info Mvrekum. Only thing I'm still interested in is improvement of that rain sensor you mentioned. Shortening the wires to 30cm's is not feasible in all cases, although I will find a way if necessary.

Would thicker cabling (as far as the terminals on the RGBW allow it) improve the situation here?

[mvrekum 2]

I have got the rain gauge working fine now. It is on a 7 meter cable with 0,75 mm2 wires (was 0,25 mm2). I am using the "It's raining" mode and with the first drop of rain my awning goes up. I could test it last week and it works perfectly.

I just need a solution for the brightness sensor, but I am on to that.

[Dino 0]

Look at this specs, is it active or passive?

Technical Index

Output

Pulse signal (HZ) 0-5VDC 4-20mA

Working Voltage

5VDC 24VDC 12~36VDC(common 24VDC)

Testing range

0.5m/s~50m/s

Start wind speed

≤0.5m/s

Accuracy

±0.5m/s(<5m/s)

±3%FS(≥5m/s)

Working Environment

Temperature: -20℃~+85℃ Humidity≤95%RH

Limit wind speed

Max: 70m/s 30min

Electrical connection

M12

Environmental Protection

Guy's who want one send me a PM to get into touch via e-mail