HC2 refund

[fergalmccarthy 5]

@Fibaro

Can you just tell me what is Fibaro's stance on refunds. I'm not sure about in Poland or other countries, but under Irish consumer law, this product would not be fit for purpose. It does not do what it is supposed to and it was falsely advertised, and still is.

Any comments ?

[Scotfree 0]

I agree. We need a formal response on this. The features that were advertised two years ago are still not available and probably just existed in someone's imagination. The product is bollocks and sale of it in the UK is bordering on illegal. We were sold a prototype. Money back please.

[deanrparry 19]

Here it comes! The * storm I predicted!

[Dino 0]

The same law in the Netherlands. So Fibaro let us know......Get my 650 euro's back for HC2 and go for indigo...

[Guest shapa]

Let's join forces guys

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

I've got (for the start) HC2 + 2xHCL to refund.

Plus a lot of other Fibaro devices - still thinking about them.

Already spoken with a lawyer.

There is no "lemon" laws in the UK / EU but "Sale of goods" act which works in a similar way to lemon laws.

In the EU it's

"Sale of consumer goods and guarantees"

Please login or register to see this link.

Sellers of consumer goods within the EU are obliged to guarantee the conformity of the goods with a contract, for a period of two years after the delivery of the goods.

Neither HC2 nor HCL never worked as promised from a first moment, easy to prove.

Waiting for a feedback now from Fibaro representative, here.

[fergalmccarthy 5]

From an Irish point of view, i'm pretty sure the HC2 does not live up to a number of these, in particular the one highlighted

Please login or register to see this link.

Under this Act the purchaser of goods has a number of rights - the main ones are

Goods must be of merchantable quality – goods should be of reasonable quality taking into account what they are meant to do, their durability and their price

Goods must be fit for their purpose – they must do what they are reasonably expected to do

Goods must be as described - the buyer must not be mislead into buying something by the description of goods or services given orally by a salesperson or an advertisement.

When you buy goods in a sale you have the same rights as when you pay full price for the goods.

If you have a contract with a supplier of services you can expect that:

The supplier has the necessary skill to provide the service

The service will be provided with proper care and diligence

The materials used will be sound and that goods supplied with the service will be of merchantable quality

[robmac 173]

The only company you can go for is your retailer so you are wasting your time here.

[waveuk 0]

Talk with the company you bought it from. I got a refound after 5 month and I replaced with a vera3.

I am keeping the modules touhht. Actually I have bought a few more.

[fergalmccarthy 5]

Thats not true, the retailer is only responsible for 1 month, after that it is back to the manufacturer

[Guest shapa]

Well, to be honest I don't like to argue with Vesternet - those guys are excellent and I'm really happy to work with them.

It is not their fault that Fibaro is lying to customers (claiming functionality and feature which are missing).

Regarding devices - yes, it looks like they work with Indigo much better than they used to work with Fibaro HC2 / HCL. I'll keep looking.

[alandee 79]

Good luck with that, I seem to remember a lot of "* in upcoming version" across most of the official advertising.. but my memory isn't as good as it used to be

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

Cheers,

al.

[palomaray 5]

Not sure about Europe but in the Uk if you can demonstrate that an item is not fit for purpose them you are entitled to a full refund,,even if the warranty period has expired.

It may be that the retailer (reseller) tries to refer you back to to the manufacturer, but your contract is with the retailer not the manufacturer, so it is them that you should pursue.

[fergalmccarthy 5]

Any just to add one more thing. I've been informed by my electrician that the bridge wire used with the 2x1.5KW relay when used with a socket is a fire hazard and he refused to install them on safety grounds. The wiring for sockets is heavier than for lighting and this makes the small wire that you are required to use as a bridge, due to the size of the terminals makes the bridge wire a weak like and susceptible to going on fire.

[fxpa 0]

Any just to add one more thing. I've been informed by my electrician that the bridge wire used with the 2x1.5KW relay when used with a socket is a fire hazard and he refused to install them on safety grounds. The wiring for sockets is heavier than for lighting and this makes the small wire that you are required to use as a bridge, due to the size of the terminals makes the bridge wire a weak like and susceptible to going on fire.

Do you have a photo of that ?????

[fergalmccarthy 5]

A photo of what ?

[Guest shapa]

It's quite predictable result. Your electrician is 100% right.

I'm always using the same rating cables as all wiring, that's why for sockets Fibaro relays is absolutely not acceptable choice.

There is simply no space to connect proper cables and connectors itself are very small (not able to tolerate high amperage).

I'd recommend to use some other relays, I'm happy with Aeon G2 Micro which are much more better in terms of hardware design.

One more (extremely dangerous) flaw of engineering design made by Fibaro.

Someone can die in a fire...

And yes, they are actively promoting those relays to install them in sockets.

p.s. just to compare - Aeon. Proper engineering. No any stupid / dangerous wire bridges. Not designed in Poland

Please login or register to see this image.

/emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" /> And yes, it reports electricity. Very useful. Also has vents holes - one more big advantage. Rated to 10A (!!!).

p.p.s. needless to say, I've got at least 4 Fibaro relays dead / replaced already, no any issues with Aeons. Earlier version of Fibaro relay has some serious issues with firmware (a lot of bugs) and it is not possible to upgrade them. Vice versa, Aeon relays are fully working form a very first moment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[robmac 173]

Any just to add one more thing. I've been informed by my electrician that the bridge wire used with the 2x1.5KW relay when used with a socket is a fire hazard and he refused to install them on safety grounds. The wiring for sockets is heavier than for lighting and this makes the small wire that you are required to use as a bridge, due to the size of the terminals makes the bridge wire a weak like and susceptible to going on fire.

but as they are only rated at about 5-6A per channel why would you put them in a socket rated at 13A? Would make no sense as they are not intended or designed for that. The rating says it all they are for lighting and similar loads.

Also it depends how you choose to wire. You can link the L with a suitable external connector. No need to put more than one wire per port so you can wire the 3KW with 2.5mm twin and earth. That is the standard for ring mains in UK though I would not wire them in a socket regardless.

[fergalmccarthy 5]

Robert, not having a go at you so don't think I am in case it comes across that way. You say you would never wired them in a socket regardless, why exactly ?? Is that not what the Fibaro relays are designed exactly for?

[UrSv 6]

but as they are only rated at about 5-6A per channel why would you put them in a socket rated at 13A? Would make no sense as they are not intended or designed for that. The rating says it all they are for lighting and similar loads.

Exactly right Robert. There is nothing wrong with the relay itself. If you install it without having the knowledge to do so then of course it might get dangerous. This is the same for all devices regardless od manufacturer. Using a thinner wire as a bridge is plain stupid and nothing you would ever do if you understood electrical wiring even the slightest.

If you install a switch to feed a socket and have absolutely no control of what is connected then you would install a 3 kW switch and not the dual 1.5 kW switch. Furthermore, sockets even when double are usually interconnected so that you cannot split them which means it makes even less sense to use a 2x1.5 kW.

Any just to add one more thing. I've been informed by my electrician that the bridge wire used with the 2x1.5KW relay when used with a socket is a fire hazard and he refused to install them on safety grounds. The wiring for sockets is heavier than for lighting and this makes the small wire that you are required to use as a bridge, due to the size of the terminals makes the bridge wire a weak like and susceptible to going on fire.

Of course it could be a problem if done like! But that fact has nothing to do with the manufacturer of the switch but is a mistake by the person who installed it with insuffucient technical knowledge for that type of installation.

I would typically not a relay for a socket as this would control everything connected to the socket and not a single device (which I would assume is what people usually want). For sockets I would use a plug-in switch which then controls only what I connect to that switch and not everything (extension cords et al) connected to the, possibly double, socket. There could obviously be situations where I could decide to put an in-wall switch to feed a socket but that would be a fairly special application for me and I would have full control over the load.

BTW, the wires used for sockets and lights is the same in many parts of Europe i.e. 1.5 mm2.

[fergalmccarthy 5]

Not in UK and Ireland its not, 2.5 mm2 for sockets and 1.5mm2 for lighting. Its actually fibaro forcing you to use a thin wire, in UK and Ireland anyway as there is no way to get 2 x 2.5 mm2 wires into the relay, hence why you will see, and have a look at google images, hundreds of installations with 1.5mm2 as bridge wire as you are not left with any choice. Fibaro are not alone here by the way, in the race to have the smallest relay /modules they are putting people in danger, especially if someone does the install themselves or gets someone less than qualified to do it.

If you read my post, it says my electrician refused to install them as it would be a breach of safety regulations, so my question is, what can i use the 10+ useless relays for now ?

[robmac 173]

i.e. 1.5 mm2

yep we like to use cable that would be ok for 20A + in the UK then run it in a ring