Dimmer2 2way switch delayed switch off

[McGreggor 0]

Hi All,

 

I've installed Dimmer2 modules in several rooms so far behind original toggle wall switches, but have come in to an issue with the hall light that has a 2way switch setup (2 switches for the same light)

 

I've managed to figure out how it was wired up and what changes needed to be made to install the Fibaro Dimmer2 module behind one of the switches.  Attachment is my crude drawing of how I have it all connected up physically.  Both switches can turn on the light, instantly as you'd expect, but when I toggle either switch again to turn off the light, it can take 10-20 seconds before the light switches off?  It's not a faulty module as I have tried a second one in there with the same results.

 

Given that both switches turn on the light, and eventually off again, I think this may be a parameter issue, probably related to the numerous 4.062beta issues I've had since upgrading.  Can anyone suggest what to change or how I might resolve this?

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[McGreggor 0]

#Update on this...

 

I've run in to exactly the same issue again on a 3-way switch setup this weekend.  Checked the 3-way switches are all working correctly with continuity test.  Using a volt meter, I was able to find that SX outputs 240v to the switch, and S1 recieves the 240V when switches are in the correct position.  However, when switching any of the switches the 240v doesn;t entirely disapear?!  I still read 40v or so on S1 so I'm guessing this must be why the Fibaro module fails to switch off the light immediately, or sometimes at all.   My house was a new build in 2009 so I don't think faulty or old wiring is likely here,  Reading up on this issue, it seems likely I have a inductive voltage (aka phantom voltage) appearing on the cable, even when switched off from 240v live feed from SX (confirmed by continuity testing).  So I now understand how and why it's occurring, but not sure how this can be resolved?

[chaicka 195]

Have you try using a relay module instead of a dimmer module?

 

Pardon me as I am no expert in electrical. Just sharing thoughts that cross my mind. I believe the 'Dimmer 2' module has leading and trailing edge feature. With your finding on the electrical circuit, the 'Dimmer 2' module may not be behaving the way you expect it to be.

[McGreggor 0]

No, not tried a relay, the only ones I have are the Qubino 1D relay plus, which aren't recognised by HC2 properly (show up as 2 switches and 2 motion sensors) 

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/emoticons/default_icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" />  You did give me the idea of perhaps using a 240V relay to solve this, so thanks for that. (The relay would hopefully not have the same issue with the phantom voltage and would give the firbaro dimmer a definitive open/closed switch status).  However, I've read up on this issue on 2way/3way circuits further and the use of a '

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' would seem to be the solution to these situations.  From what I can tell, these are exactly the same as the Fibaro Dimmer bypass, but would be installed in a different place to remove the phantom voltage.  I think I'll give this a try once I've worked out what type I need and where to connect it.

 

Still surprised no-one else has come across this already...

[McGreggor 0]

So I've got hold of

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now, and wired it in across S1 and N on my 3-way landing light circuit.  It's working as planned; and I can measure the phantom voltage has dropped to 0.3v now on S1 (when the switches aren't letting 240v though) but this hasn't solved the issue.  I'm guessing the dimmer 2 module needs to see 0v on S1 to switch the light on/off.  Not sure what can to do next...

 

Good news is that those snubbers work perfectly as a much cheaper alternatives to the fibaro bypass module.

[petergebruers 1,259]

Good news is that those snubbers work perfectly as a much cheaper alternatives to the fibaro bypass module.

You make a bold claim here... As far as I know, from testing the original "Bypass 2", it is not a snubber. It's an active device (not simply a resistor or capacitor), that limits the voltage across the lamp terminals (when dimmer is off). That voltage can cause lamps to flicker (especially CFL) or glow (some LED). Does your snubber have the same (positive) effect? I'm sure that a snubber will have a positive effect on the life of a relay contact, by reducing sparking caused by inductive loads (pumps, for example). It's also used to dampen the voltage across a triac, but the FGD-212 is not triac based...

[petergebruers 1,259]

If your dimmer is v3.2 it is more sensitive to what you call "phantom voltages", then when you have a v3.3 or v3.4. The only solution that I know of, is shorter leads to S1. This can be achieved by putting a relay between the longer lead and S1. Unfortunately, most users can't find a way to put the relay close to the FGD-212, so you might have to find alternative solutions.

I think your schematic is incorrect, but your wiring probably is correct. Common of first switch to S1, other poles of the switch to the other switch (2 wires), then the common of the second switch to Sx

I think your problem might be related to this, with more info about the relay and parameters:

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[McGreggor 0]

You make a bold claim here... As far as I know, from testing the original "Bypass 2", it is not a snubber. It's an active device (not simply a resistor or capacitor), that limits the voltage across the lamp terminals (when dimmer is off). That voltage can cause lamps to flicker (especially CFL) or glow (some LED). Does your snubber have the same (positive) effect? I'm sure that a snubber will have a positive effect on the life of a relay contact, by reducing sparking caused by inductive loads (pumps, for example). It's also used to dampen the voltage across a triac, but the FGD-212 is not triac based...

 

In what way would it be an 'active' device?  I'm no expert, but I've installed one of

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Snubbers/Network Capacitors in a ceiling rose for a light that had an LED build installed, powered via a Dimmer 2 module.  It used to light up slightly even when switched off, but the snubber has resolved this exactly as the bypass 2 would have.  I'm not certain, but I think the dimmer 2 is exactly the same type of component as this,

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even looks the same...

[McGreggor 0]

If your dimmer is v3.2 it is more sensitive to what you call "phantom voltages", then when you have a v3.3 or v3.4. The only solution that I know of, is shorter leads to S1. This can be achieved by putting a relay between the longer lead and S1. Unfortunately, most users can't find a way to put the relay close to the FGD-212, so you might have to find alternative solutions.

I think your schematic is incorrect, but your wiring probably is correct. Common of first switch to S1, other poles of the switch to the other switch (2 wires), then the common of the second switch to Sx

I think your problem might be related to this, with more info about the relay and parameters:

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Thanks for this, the other thread does indeed seem to be the same issue as mine.  I've just ordered a couple of the 240v relays you recommended there, and will solder them in.  Good to confirm my prior thoughts on perhaps taking this route were valid!  My module in the 2-way switch circuit is v3.2, but I also have the issue with a v3.3 module in my 3-way circuit, both 3-wire setups.  

 

My crude schematic is correct I believe (expect it shows both switches in 'off' position), at least that's how my 2-way is wired up since installing the module.  Prior to my changes, it had a permanent live on common as I recall, but I removed this to use for the module itself.  I have checked the switching circuit via continuity tests, and it behaves as is should across the two L1/L2 terminals I use to connect SX/S1, (sometimes even the light works as it should too).  I can't tell you how long I spent check and re-checking everything when this first showed up, it was a real headache!