sticky relay

[Mib 15]

Hello forum!

I do not know if this ist the correct translation but I got issues with sticky relay (verklebtes Relais).

All of my lights are LEDs and in kitchen I use 8 spots with 10W. What happend was that after some weeks I could not turn off the light anymore. I did not hear the typical click of the FIBARO switch FIBEFGS-222. It appeared as turned off in the browser and the iPhone app. But lights were not out. I replaced it with another FIBEFGS-222 and the same thing happend after a few weeks again.

Now I was told by someone that LEDs have high wattage when turned on and off. Up to ten times. I should use a reducer.

Anyone out there with the same problem?

MIB

[petergebruers 1,268]

As a matter of fact, I've discussed this with another user a few days ago (and with others before that). See:

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BTW "sticky" or "stuck" or "welded" are all possible ways to describe the problem. The more specific term is "welded" and refers to contacts being fused together because of high current.

[Mib 15]

Thank you for your answer. I'm happy to be not alone. But unhappy about the whole situation. Homematic has the sampe probs and offers ESB1 to solve it (

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) Maybe this is interesting for someone here.

[petergebruers 1,268]

Thanks... That is indeed an NTC in a nice box, with flexible wires. I certainly can't to a better job.

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/emoticons/default_icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" /> Maybe one problem it shares with other solutions is its size: 35 x 35 x 10 mm.

Do you have one of these or are you going to try one? I'm a bit confused that you seem to know about this potential problem is and (one of) its solution, but still ask about the FG-222. Or were you seeking confirmation that it is "welding" of the contacts?

[1152 33]

I guess we will see this type of circuitry or logic built in to a lot of the new devices

[Mib 15]

Well the size my friend ... I do not care about size - I care about function. Somehow I will manage to hide this box somewhere as long as the FIBEFGS-222 continues to work properly.

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I just bought 5 of them yesterday, they were shipped today. Next week the electrician will come and we will see if we can avoid those welding (sticky) relays. He also brings a "Koppelrelais" coupling relay - do not know if the translation is correct at all - for tests.

I do not understand your confusion right now. Please explain it a little more.

I had probs with some lights that could not be turned off anymore and FIBEFGS-222 switches which were dead and had to be replaced. Worst case was kitchen where I have now the fifth FIBEFGS-222 since August 2015. I had no idea what was wrong when I got a hint from a guy who works in house automation. He told me about LEDs and welding relays. Then I started digging in the internet. Found that is was a common prob with LEDs. Asked for solutions here and in this forum

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.

MIB

[petergebruers 1,268]

Ah, the philosophical question: "does size matter"?

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/emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" /> Thank you for elaborating. No more confusion, I misinterpreted the sentence "Homematic has...".

I have used NTCs for more than a year and I switch the Fibaro relays severals times a day. No sticking relays. The NTC is reliable too. If you have an older computer, with a power supply that doesn't have a PFC circuit, then you almost certainly have an NTC in there.

[Mib 15]

I agree! And yes it does matter.

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OK this gives me hope to avoid welding relays in the future.

I do not understand why it happens sometimes and not always. If the load is too high then it is always too high.

MIB

[Mib 15]

Back again.

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/emoticons/default_icon_curve.gif" alt=":-/" />

 

As I wrote I ordered 5 of those "Einschaltstrombegrenzer ESB1" and had them connected to the troublemaker relays. No welded relays anymore.  

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Till last week. Now I can not turn on one of the lights anymore. Quick check and I saw the problem. "Einschaltstrombegrenzer ESB1" has a limit of 200W maximum.

I use there 2x130W LED stripes. So the internal fuse of  "Einschaltstrombegrenzer ESB1" seems to be blown. Removing the  "Einschaltstrombegrenzer ESB1" I could turn off and on the LED stripes again. 

 

Solution. I ordered a FIBARO FIBEFGS-212 with 2.5KW and hope I can use it without "Einschaltstrombegrenzer ESB1". The odd thing is that the "Einschaltstrombegrenzer ESB1" unit is sealed and you can not replace the simple wire fuse. That would not be a real solution anyway. But with a bimetallic fuse it should work. Or with a different resistor. Now a 10 Ohm NTC is in use.

 

MIB