Huge System - Any advice?

[glaso 1]

Hi Guys:

 

I am planning to build a huge FIBARO system with 180 light modules (most of them relays and about 20 dimmers). It will also include about 8 thermostats.

Is it possible?

I guess I will need more than one HC2. Or not?

Any other advice?

[leighivins 1]

HC2 can deal with 230 devices, should be fine

[leighivins 1]

if you can get away with using dual relays to control 2 circuits you could almost half the amount of modules you will need

[glaso 1]

if you can get away with using dual relays to control 2 circuits you could almost half the amount of modules you will need

[glaso 1]

In fact most of the modules manage two circuits. I need 180 modules to control about 300 circuits..... It is a 14000 sq ft house!!!

[Bamsefar 13]

Be ready to have some minor issues with the software in HC2. From a hardware point of view I think there will be no problems when we look at CPU and such. However the wireless range might be an issue, and you might need two or three HC2 or HC2 + 2*HCL (the HCLs should work as remote node, so not a problem as far as I can tell). The best thing is you can start with a single HC2 and if you have wireless problems due to distance, just add a HCL or two...

 

BUT my feeling is that you will get into minor firmware glitches on the way.

 

I love my HC2, trust med I do, but I do not consider the firmware after 3.600 (that is the FW 4.xxx) as even close to stable - and I think that the HC2s that are sold today can't even get the very (3 years?) old firmware... So just be aware that the road you choose might not be smooth... And now I guess I'll get banned or something

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[HomeSystem.sk 69]

I think you will be just fine. The version 4.080 is stable enough, I did not have ANY issue with it and I am on ID around 400 (constant testing new things, new modules, adding and deleting devices,...) so I am not the one who has it nicely done with everything on its place - and still no issues. 

I have no dead nodes, my scenes are running, modules are working... I dont really see where Bamsefar takes his "stability issues" as even when you look at the how long the update topics are (if there are problems, the topic get 50-100 pages like nothing, now there are 6 pages in the topic).

 

Depends how your house is builded you may need slave HCL - if you have lets say 3 floors you may be just fine if you have HC2 in the middle. If it is one floor, well, you may need the second one. But yes, do it nicely from the middle and you will see until when the MESH will work. 

Anyway, I think that is really big project and it will be interesting to see how it goes and how it work at the end. I believe you could start new topic with your experience, so we all learn something

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[Bamsefar 13]

I dont really see where Bamsefar takes his "stability issues" as even when you look at the how long the update topics are (if there are problems, the topic get 50-100 pages like nothing, now there are 6 pages in the topic).

 

Well then I can tell you this two examples:

 

1) When a philio motion sensor is used, the GUI indicates motion, and it can even trigger a scene (most of the time, I have examples when not even triggering works), however if this motion is the first motion in the last say 15 minutes, then for some odd reason the properties of that device is NULL and not correct value = if a scene is triggered, and motion is detected by the device, then YOU will not be able to grab that property with the correct value.

 

2) If you have 5 scenes that are all triggered by a global variable, and the first thing EVERY scene does is sending a z-wave command, at least ONE of them are going to be missing. That is when you load up the z-wave engine with some sort of ques - it only grabs the one it has time to handle and drops the rest.

[glaso 1]

Well then I can tell you this two examples:

 

1) When a philio motion sensor is used, the GUI indicates motion, and it can even trigger a scene (most of the time, I have examples when not even triggering works), however if this motion is the first motion in the last say 15 minutes, then for some odd reason the properties of that device is NULL and not correct value = if a scene is triggered, and motion is detected by the device, then YOU will not be able to grab that property with the correct value.

 

2) If you have 5 scenes that are all triggered by a global variable, and the first thing EVERY scene does is sending a z-wave command, at least ONE of them are going to be missing. That is when you load up the z-wave engine with some sort of ques - it only grabs the one it has time to handle and drops the rest.

Well, I guess this system will be very complex in terms of number of devices, but simple in terms of functionality, since it will only include lighting and thermostats. No complex sensors or complex scenes.

In your opinion: Would be a good idea to go with 4.XX firmware?

[Bamsefar 13]

If you stay with Fibaro devices only then I see no problem. Now when it comes to thermostats I have a few of them, none have given me any problems, so here you might be safe also.

I guess the challenges comes with complexity functionality as you wrote - I have a rather complex solution with multiple rules running in different times of the day with different settings and times. I try to simplify my rules, but every time I do that I come up with more advanced rules in the end since I figure out even more things to do thanks to "the simplified solution" or something

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/emoticons/default_icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" /> In the end my wife and I seems to be more and more happy with the complexity. A normal day we never touch any lights switches or anything - everything just works... And then some days my wife wonders why the lamps blinks or are turned off - and it is normally my fault (with fw3.600 - with fw4.xxx I'm not to blame more than for testing the new firmware - 3.600 works so the correct question might be: Why do I even bother to test the new ones?).

[alex88 71]

I think you will be just fine. The version 4.080 is stable enough, I did not have ANY issue with it and I am on ID around 400 (constant testing new things, new modules, adding and deleting devices,...) so I am not the one who has it nicely done with everything on its place - and still no issues. 

I have no dead nodes, my scenes are running, modules are working... I dont really see where Bamsefar takes his "stability issues" as even when you look at the how long the update topics are (if there are problems, the topic get 50-100 pages like nothing, now there are 6 pages in the topic).

 

Depends how your house is builded you may need slave HCL - if you have lets say 3 floors you may be just fine if you have HC2 in the middle. If it is one floor, well, you may need the second one. But yes, do it nicely from the middle and you will see until when the MESH will work. 

Anyway, I think that is really big project and it will be interesting to see how it goes and how it work at the end. I believe you could start new topic with your experience, so we all learn something

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I have been using Fibaro for closing in on 4 years and I think I have every Fibaro module made installed in my system barring swipe:

 

HomeSystem.sk:

- I am sorry, but you cannot tell someone (ie it is unfair) that a version is stable enough after only 8 days of it being released; maybe after 2-3 months without a reboot you can

 

- It is also misleading to state that the System is stable as there are still a lot of issues and I dare not document all of them here, however, for example RAM leaks acknowledged by support still persist, as well as functionality missing or not working on Fibaro's own modules (sorry Bamsefar, your comment is not valid, search on the forum for issues with Fibaro RGBW moduiles for starters - since I installed them (not long after their release) they have never been fully functional).

 

Honestly, i am happy for you that you system is stable, but a lot of people are still facing stability issues and this in itself means that the platform is still not stable i.e. just because it works for some does not make it stable for all 

 

- I have around 150 modules (mostly mains powered) in a house that is less than 2,000sqft and I need two controllers to stop dead node issues, however on stable 4.070 I have been receiving dead node issues on most days (to be fair this was not happening on previous versions and hopefully it will go away when I need decide to take the plunge and upgrade again)

 

- Unless the house is made of paper thin walls, i would be gobsmacked if only one controller would handle all modules across 14000sqft, I would expect you need 3+ controllers to cover that area. As Bamsefar said: probably 1x HC2 and 2x HCL.

 

@Glaso, be careful with associations. I still have issues where associated lights do not function as expected e.g. 5 circuits are all associated (fibaro dimmer 1 modules), one of more of the lights in the circuit is on, i click the wall switch expecting the lights to all turn off and instead they all turn on, i then click again to turn the lights off. Also, I have issues with Fibaro dimmer 1 modules where i need to click 3 times before the light goes on; to be fair as of v4070 i haven't noticed it, but on 4056 it was definitely there.

 

Look put simply, Fibaro is improving their software. Updates come out regularly and fixes are put in place. If you look at the platform 1.5 years ago it was shaky at least. There were so many issues then it's a miracle in some ways that people stayed on. But for all that have stayed on, I am sure they are a lot happier now then they were back then.

The system now is miles ahead. With time (we all hope and pray) that it will become rock solid stable. It isn't there yet, but the guys are working on it.

As for your project, I would say go for it. I believe they will fix the issues and create a great system, but please do expect to face some problems. Maybe wiith Fibaro Dimmer 2 modules the issues I face with the Dimmer 1's have been resolved. As for the Fibaro Relays, I would say they are quite stable. I have only experienced a couple of minor problems i.e. status not reporting correctly in web interface, modules seeming to get stuck in off or on positions, but mainly they seem reliable now.

 

I am not sure if FIbaro's user base is growing faster than the support team in Poland, but I am finding support to be VERY slow to respond. If you don't call (unfortunately I can't from work) it generally seems to take 1.5 to 2 weeks to get a reply to an email ticket. I hope this improves soon.

 

Finally, I am not sure how to really test zwave traffic, but my slave HC2 has around 70% of the modules with the master holding only 30% plus all scenes, panels etc. I still find the master gets hammered very hard whereas the slave seems to purr along just fine. I would suggest you don't evenly balance your system. Put more modules on the slave boxes and keep the master box light so it can handle the grunt of any scenes you do end up creating. You may be surprised how much CPU usages occurs just from having a few simple scenes, VD's and a heating panel.

 

 

 

Good luck!