Jump to content

Welcome to Smart Home Forum by FIBARO

Dear Guest,

 

as you can notice parts of Smart Home Forum by FIBARO is not available for you. You have to register in order to view all content and post in our community. Don't worry! Registration is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to sign up. Become a part of of Smart Home Forum by FIBARO by creating an account.

 

As a member you can:

  •     Start new topics and reply to others
  •     Follow topics and users to get email updates
  •     Get your own profile page and make new friends
  •     Send personal messages
  •     ... and learn a lot about our system!

 

Regards,

Smart Home Forum by FIBARO Team


  • 0

Advice: Best LED-Spot for RGBW Fibaro Module


Guest samuelboerhoop

Question

Guest samuelboerhoop

Which LED-Spot works in you opinion the best (dimming performance) in combination with the RGBW dimmer from Fibaro?

 

Supply = 12V

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 answers to this question

Recommended Posts

  • 0

What do you mean by "with the RGBW dimmer from Fibaro" ?

There is a dimmer and RGBW, as far as I know they are different devices.

Could you please send a link to see how looks RGBW dimmer?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Guest samuelboerhoop
  • Inquirer
  • RGBW Controller

    FGRGBWM-441

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
    Guest samuelboerhoop
  • Inquirer
  • Which LED-Spot works in you opinion the best (dimming performance) in combination with the RGBW controller?

     

    LED-Spots = Bulbs (dimmable)

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    @samuelboerhoop you asked that same question here:

    Please login or register to see this link.

    I suggest we continue the discussion here. I'll copy what I've said so far:

     

    I know this is not an answer to your question, but it's related. I understand the "halogen" part because for them it doesn't matter if it's 12 V AC or 12 V DC. I think "12 V LED spots" that replace halogen lamps are designed for 12 V AC. On the other hand, LED STRIPS are designed for 12 V DC. I have strips, and they dim from 0 to 100 % on an RGBW. I also own a few 12 V LED (halogen replacement) spots and they are fine on an FGD-212 connected to a Osram Halotronic (designed for AC so not compatible with strips). I have been tempted to try my spots on a RGBW, just to see how they behave, but I have so far resisted...

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" /> I have a test setup with an RGBW, so I might give in to temptation this week after all.

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" />

    Maybe someone else knows the answer?

     

     

    I can setup a test with a Philips Warm Glow 6.5 W GU5.3 this week. Let me know if you're still interested.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    Which LED-Spot works in you opinion the best (dimming performance) in combination with the RGBW dimmer from Fibaro?

     

    Supply = 12V

     

    The question is what kind of power source do you have. What kind of transformer and does it output AC or DC? Is the transformer dimmable?

     

    And what kind of spot? Link? 12V LED spots that are replacements for halogen contain active electronics and might object to PWM dimming (FIBARO RGBW Controller).

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    The question is what kind of power source do you have. What kind of transformer and does it output AC or DC? Is the transformer dimmable?

     

    And what kind of spot? Link? 12V LED spots that are replacements for halogen contain active electronics and might object to PWM dimming (FIBARO RGBW Controller).

    The OP gave more detailed information in that other topic. To answer your questions, I quote: "I have a RGBW dimmer module (working on 12V) to drive a couple of spotlights. The dimming level (from 0 to 100%) with a Halogen spotlamp (50W) is perfect, but with LED spotlight it isn't that great, as i ordered and tested a couple ones from Aliexpress! (LEDspot with COB led build in - dimmable)". So the load is transformer-less, DC.

    I agree, PWM dimming is different from the AC phase cut dimming used for 12 V AC. I find this an intriguing question. That's why I'll test a Philips Warm Glow 6.5 W GU5.3 this week.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    My thoughts is that 12V LED spots will generally not work with DC and PWM because they expect AC and phase cut.

     

    But I'll bet there are some that do work so you will have to look. 

     

    Personally I would just replace the transformer to 12V AC (electronic and dimmable) and have a 110V/230V dimmer before the transformer (Fibaro Dimmer 2). But then I would also not buy LED bulbs from Aliexpress/Ebay for the only reason I want to be able to find the exact same bulb or (same spec) from same manufacturer when one fails.

     

    ...

    That's why I'll test a Philips Warm Glow 6.5 W GU5.3 this week.

     

    Looking forward to you test. I find this intriguing as well

    Please login or register to see this image.

    /emoticons/default_smile.png" alt=":)" srcset="https://forum.fibaro.com/uploads/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" width="20" height="20" />

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0
    Guest samuelboerhoop
  • Inquirer
  • The question is what kind of power source do you have. What kind of transformer and does it output AC or DC? Is the transformer dimmable?

    Answer: 12V DC Power-Supply 4.8A on this P/S I connect the RGBW Controller > LED-spot

     

    petergebruers: Yes, please test this for me: I can setup a test with a Philips Warm Glow 6.5 W GU5.3 this week. Let me know if you're still interested. 

    Do you have a photo from the Philips Led Spot? Yes, I started a new topic as nobody else responded to the topic from this: 

    Please login or register to see this link.

     

    spots: And what kind of spot? Link? 12V LED spots that are replacements for halogen contain active electronics and might object to PWM dimming (FIBARO RGBW Controller).

    Understood. I do agree with you, as i tested the halogen 50W which dims smootly with the RGBW controller on 12VDC and with several LED-spots from Aliexpress, whereby I tested those LED-spots. When i slide the slider on the webinterface the brightness of the LED-spots are very quickly bright and dims not smootly, that's why i asked the question, if somebody has better experience with the best LED-spot to dim with a RGBW controller (fibaro) LED-Strips do dim well to my experience.

     

    Link example: 

    Please login or register to see this link.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    12V DC Power-Supply 4.8A on this P/S I connect the RGBW Controller > LED-spot

    ...

    Understood. I do agree with you, as i tested the halogen 50W which dims smootly with the RGBW controller on 12VDC and with several LED-spots from Aliexpress, whereby I tested those LED-spots. When i slide the slider on the webinterface the brightness of the LED-spots are very quickly bright and dims not smootly, that's why i asked the question, if somebody has better experience with the best LED-spot to dim with a RGBW controller (fibaro) LED-Strips do dim well to my experience.

    ...

     

    I have never tried DC on my 12V spots. I only use Fibaro Dimmer 2. Unfortunately I do not have a 12V DC transformer readily available as I do have 12V Osram Parathom spots at home and an untried RGBW controller. I am very curious how they would handle PWM.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    I've done some tests and I need a bit more time. Not that it doesn't work, but I'm not yet satisfied with the results. I'll probably finish testing tomorrow.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    Results of testing the "Philips Warm Glow" 12 V spot (see photos below) on a RGBW module (PWM dimming).

    Short story: One spot per channel, a good power supply and setting p12=150 will give a good dimming range (high to low ratio) but the linearity of the dimming slider could be better.

    Long story:

    This bulb is a premium product, it's expensive (certainly compared to aliexpress Chinese import, but then again every non-import bulb looks expensive), it's very solid to give the best possibly heat dissipation. The idea behind the "Warm Glow" (to simulate halogen response to dimming) is simple and effective. One of the LEDs is red. By dimming the white LEDs more then the red one, you get a shift towards warm light. I have nothing to gain by telling this. It's my personal opinion. I don't say other bulbs are bad. I have several "Chinese Import" things, but no LEDs (yet). I've formed an opion (sometimes positive, sometimes negative) buy watching several reviews and tear-downs on youtube. I am a fan of "bigclivedotcom".

    First, how is the "out of the box" experience with the recommended setup? I'll keep it short, because this about RGBW compatibility. I've tried the spotlight on an iron core transformer, a halotronic 105 and a FGD-212. For the halotronic, its worth noting that one lamp doesn't need the minimum load spec and that doesn't work well. I added a 20 W halogen and I can say this setup works as expected. This is odd, because the Philips website says 1-3 lamps per Halotronic. Maybe it's something with my setup. The light dims up or down over a very wide range. It's not linear, 50-100% doesn't change a lot visually.

    The "out of the box" experience with the RGBW is very good to. I mean, it just works. But this slider doesn't feel... right. So I did some testing and I've made some measurements.

    The LED works reliably (at room temperature) from 9 V DC onwards, so 12 V, even with a power supply slightly out of spec, should be no problem. It draws 0,56 A so that is 6,7 Watts = as specified ( RW or "Real Watts", not MW or "Marketeer Watts"). I've noticed that Setting the slider to 75% does not drop the current. Setting the slider to 50% gets the current down to 0,51 A but a 10% drop in current doesn't result in a noticeable drop in luminosity. Below that, the dimming gets visible.

    This is why I feel it's better to set setting p12=150 (Max Dim Lev) - it will make a bigger part of the slider work.

    This spot draws a 2 A pulsed current (around 550 kHz) so you might put two of these in parallel on one channel, but I'm not sure. I don't have a second one to test. But I did another test, at higher voltage (18 V, should be no problem for RGBW nor for this lamp) and when going to 100% the RGBW detected over-current and throttled the output. So'm really unsure if two spots would work over a range of voltage and temperature.

    Notice that on the socket it says "12ac". This is to be expected, after all it replaces a 12 V halogen. I'm pretty certain this means in all cases (talking about LEDs) the device works on 12 V DC too. In fact it would work on the maximum amplitude of 12 AC and that's 18 V DC.

    The temperature of the base of the lamp was 60 degrees Celsius, in open air. While this is no problem for a properly designed piece of electronics, it may surprise a human being...

    Feel free to comment!

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    Please login or register to see this attachment.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    • 0

    Adding to the short story. It does work with PWM. I'm curious if it was luck or if it was engineered this way.

    I can't tell you, I don't know the design. I've tried to find a technical document, *any* technical document, but after searching for more than an hour, I didn't find anything official that mentions "PWM". The "Dimmer Compatibility List" doesn't mention it either, because it's not a mains voltage lamp. I've searched on other forums too. I think the consensus is, that this is a 12 V AC halogen bulb replacement device. Does it seem to work reliably? Yes, I got it attached to a scope, and it is a clever device. It detects under-voltage, over-current, uses a soft start (limits current), has some small startup delay, works with AC and DC. When I change the supply from 9 V to 15 V with PWM = 25 % the current changes slightly from 0,24 A to 0,27 A. So the current depends mainly on the percentage.

    Link to comment
    Share on other sites

    Join the conversation

    You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

    Guest
    Answer this question...

    ×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

      Only 75 emoji are allowed.

    ×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

    ×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

    ×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

    ×
    ×
    • Create New...