Fibaro Dimmer 2

[MJV 0]

HI, 

 

Without one to hand, does anyone know what the output voltage of the Fibaro dimmer modules are? 

 

Im talking S1, S2, Sx. 

 

Im assuming the same is input voltage. but hoping for it to not be. 

 

Thanks.

[Jamie mccrostie 82]

Yes same as input

[MJV 0]

Damn! wont sub the earth as a switch wire then 

[petergebruers 1,265]

Sx for practical purposes equal to L. Then, on S1 and S2, the module forces a small current (uA range). If nothing is connected, S1 and S2 float to a few volt relative to Sx (and thus L). If you connect a switch to S1 an Sx and close it, the module will sense a drop in voltage. So I would not refer to this input as voltage controlled and i think the only way to connect it to another system, e.g. an alarm, an arduino, in short: anything that does not look like a switch, is by using a relay (with floating contacts, but that is assumed to be the case when talking about relays). The relay should have proper insulation and should be rated for connecting the two circuits. So if it is "extra low voltage" defined as anything < 50 V then it has to be rated for this! Failure to do say may lead to injury or death, because mains voltage might leak to circuits that can be touched... I'm talking about stuff used in a bathroom, sprinklers, garage doors, ...

 

Using a yellow-green wire for anything else than "protective earth" is absolutely forbidden and dangerous, please do not ever do this. Not even when you connect it to a 9 V battery...

 

Sorry for the rant, but I can be quite passionate about this, because connecting these mains operated relays to non-mains stuff can be dangerous.

[MJV 0]

Peter, thanks for the reply, I was merely trying to work out if there were some kind of lower voltage circuit for the switching. Only for the reason that a twin has been ran in the wall when really I needed a 3core. Theoretically if it was an extra low voltage output from the dimmer the cable wouldn't necessarily need an Earth! 

[petergebruers 1,265]

1 minute ago, MJV said:

Peter, thanks for the reply, I was merely trying to work out if there were some kind of lower voltage circuit for the switching. Only for the reason that a twin has been ran in the wall when really I needed a 3core. Theoretically if it was an extra low voltage output from the dimmer the cable wouldn't necessarily need an Earth! 

 

I see... so you where hoping that Sx was separated from mains? None of the modules that I know of (Fibaro, Qubino) have this feature. I'm guessing that it would be (a) difficult do build such a small isolated power supply (b) difficult to meet specifications regarding separation and (c) difficult to make people properly use them.

 

I'm anticipating a question: if Sx = L why Sx? If Sx isn't isolated after all, why bother to make the distinction? Well, that is to make sure *no other load* connects to the switch. If you'd use L, other circuits (loads) might run through L, causing noise on the circuit that might disturb detection on S1 and S2. Some users have successfully used L instead of Sx, but it is not compliant with the drawings in the manual, and "your mileage may vary".

 

If it's low voltage, I'm afraid only the Fibaro RGBW is an option. But please make sure you meet regulations. It's probably forbidden to run ELV wires through the same conduit as mains voltage, unless your ELV cable is double insulated.

[MJV 0]

Pretty much, in my mind was hoping for some kind of extra small transformer inside to bring down to say 12v. Then to use the switch wire down to switch as a 3 core ELv. The twin is double insulated and doesn't run with lv as light is fed anyway. 

 

But hey hey guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board on this oneeee !

[petergebruers 1,265]

1 minute ago, MJV said:

Pretty much, in my mind was hoping for some kind of extra small transformer inside to bring down to say 12v. Then to use the switch wire down to switch as a 3 core ELv. The twin is double insulated and doesn't run with lv as light is fed anyway. 

 

But hey hey guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board on this oneeee !

Hmmm. That's unfortunate, you had everything so right, except for the module input. But somehow I'm confident you are still having fun :-) If you'r  a bit of an eectronics guy, there is one type of device that might be used instead of a relay: an "optoMOS solid state relay". I've got one, but never tried it on a dimmer input. PM me if you want me to elaborate.

[MJV 0]

Basically my fault for not running a 3 core to every switch just in case! Although it's hard to know when to stop... can't fit dimmer in back box because I was too lazy to chase 35mm box. 16 mm is far too shallow. Maybe will see if the cable is loose enough in the oval! 

 

Electrics yes. Electronics, no! Electronics is the hobby electrics is the bread. 

[petervanderpol 1]

On 1/27/2017 at 10:55 PM, petergebruers said:

 

.... 

I'm anticipating a question: if Sx = L why Sx? If Sx isn't isolated after all, why bother to make the distinction? Well, that is to make sure *no other load* connects to the switch. If you'd use L, other circuits (loads) might run through L, causing noise on the circuit that might disturb detection on S1 and S2. Some users have successfully used L instead of Sx, but it is not compliant with the drawings in the manual, and "your mileage may vary".

.... 

Hi Peter, 

 

I was wondering the same thing, it is not drawn by fibaro, but is it safe? In my situation I sometimes have 3 or even 4 - 3-way switches in 1 box "wisselschakelingen. 

 

Being able to share the live wire within that box instead of having 4x extra black cables in would be very convenient and easy to install and maintain. (although it is possible). 

 

Care to share your thoughts? 

 

 

[petergebruers 1,265]

On 12/31/2020 at 9:08 AM, petervanderpol said:

Care to share your thoughts?

I do not have the issue you have so I cannot tell you anything about "4 - 3-way switches in 1 box" using L instead of Sx. Because nobody else seems to comment on this, I guess you'll have to find out on your own. Suggestion: let it simmer for about a week, I've got a few followers, maybe they have something to add. Be careful though, being in the Netherlands you have L + N system but that does not mean all black wires are L, you might have a 3-phase system, L1, L2 and L3 and then you should not mix them. Also be careful when rearranging your wiring, not to introduce "shared/borrowed" neutrals which is also wrong. This is a UK guy but the idea of borrowed neutrals is pretty universal

 

 

[petervanderpol 1]

On 1/3/2021 at 2:11 PM, petergebruers said:

I do not have the issue you have so I cannot tell you anything about "4 - 3-way switches in 1 box" using L instead of Sx. Because nobody else seems to comment on this, I guess you'll have to find out on your own. Suggestion: let it simmer for about a week, I've got a few followers, maybe they have something to add. Be careful though, being in the Netherlands you have L + N system but that does not mean all black wires are L, you might have a 3-phase system, L1, L2 and L3 and then you should not mix them. Also be careful when rearranging your wiring, not to introduce "shared/borrowed" neutrals which is also wrong. This is a UK guy but the idea of borrowed neutrals is pretty universal

....

 

 

Hi Peter,

 

Thank you for your response. We have installed our own electrics ourselves and I think we are good. I will look into that video to be sure.

I've thought about what i've said earlier and I think I will not go this way anymore and rather follow the fibaro manual/advice.

If I would use the other method, I would have 1 black wire less for each module because the brown (L) will be used.

 

 

This is what it would look like:

 

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I think there is only one question remaining, and I am not sure If I should ask it here:

 

As you can see, Group 2 & 3 both will have a Z-wave association to an RGBW 2 module, this is done so that you can control & Dim the RGBW lighting from 3 places.

The question is, if you use a dimmer 2 purely for association , can it then go through it's calibration process? Or will it get stuck?

 

Any comments?

 

 

Regards,
Peter

 

 

 

 

[petergebruers 1,265]

8 minutes ago, petervanderpol said:

The question is, if you use a dimmer 2 purely for association , can it then go through it's calibration process? Or will it get stuck?

 

See:

 

 

[petervanderpol 1]

4 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

 

See:

 

 

 

 

Okay great thanks! I have plenty of bypasses laying around. I will test it first on my testboard.