How to determine if my Fibaro plug is Z-Wave Plus

[abpostelnicu 7]

Hello,

 

I've bought several Fibaro plugs from a retailer in my country but he didn't know to tell me if they are Z-Wave Plus or not, how can i determine this?

 

Thank you

[Jacek Stark 44]

You need to read instruction.

[abpostelnicu 7]

On 4/6/2017 at 4:39 PM, Jacek Stark said:

You need to read instruction.

Excuse me but this doesn't help me much, what instructions are you referring to?

 

I've discovered that all of my plugs are version 2.5, so i guess hey are not Z-Wave Plus. Can the firmware be upgraded to Z-Wave Plus compatibility?

Edited April 9, 2017 by abpostelnicu

[RH_Dreambox 189]

FGWPF-102-ZW5 is Z-Wave Plus (Fw 3.2)

Edited April 9, 2017 by RH_Dreambox

[SpaceCompany 21]

1 hour ago, abpostelnicu said:

Excuse me but this doesn't help me much, what instructions are you referring to?

 

I've discovered that all of my plugs are version 2.5, so i guess hey are not Z-Wave Plus. Can the firmware be upgraded to Z-Wave Plus compatibility?

NO, a Z-wave device can not simply be upgraded to Z-wave plus just by firmware update... The device needs a different chip... so if you have Z-wave devices and want Z-Wave plus devices, simply sell them and buy the new versions.

[petergebruers 1,268]

You already have the latest version of the non Z-wave plus version (2.5). The 2.X version can't be upgraded to the 3.X version (it's different hardware). The product number is different too, but it's easiersto look at the firmware version.

 

You can download the manuals here:

 

http://manuals.fibaro.com

 

Z-Wave and Z-wave Plus are very, very compatible.

 

Any particular reason why you'd want the new version, apart from the fact that it's... newer?

 

[abpostelnicu 7]

I hoped that mine were zwave plus because as far as I know the 5th gen has better coverage.

im struggling to connect a wall plus that's 7 meters away from + 2 brick walls.

[petergebruers 1,268]

I see. Can you include the device about halfway? Then move the plug to it's final destination? other devices in the neighborhood should act as repeaters. But that's only after inclusion. Inclusion works only with a direct connection unless the device supports NWI. Don't know about that version of the Wall Plug. I have to check that.

[RH_Dreambox 189]

I know that HC2 / HCL supports Z-Wave Plus units by back compability.

But can HC2 / HCL take benefits of Z-Wave Plus if I only have Z-Wave Plus units?
Have HC2 / HCL support for the Z-Wave Plus protocol?

[petergebruers 1,268]

2 minutes ago, RH_Dreambox said:

I know that HC2 / HCL supports Z-Wave Plus units by back compability.

But can HC2 / HCL take benefits of Z-Wave Plus if I only have Z-Wave Plus units?
Have HC2 / HCL support for the Z-Wave Plus protocol?

 

Short answer: yes. Medium long answer: Z-Wave plus is more like a set of standards, I have never seen a strict definition of what you call "a protocol". An example: a "plus" device has to support over the air firmware updates. Older chips can run "plus" software, Fibaro confirmed this, I can search links for you, when I'm home. A Z-Wave Plus device can offer newer features, even though the HC is older. For example. I reviewed the keyfob, and I can confirm that this "plus" device has excellent range (even though my HC2 doesn't have the "plus" logo or a recent chip). Also, the "plus" is not set in stone. There have been rumours, that a new security class (think: doorlocks) will be released. Capabilities are negotiated, so you have compatibility...

 

Of course, the newer controller chips used in the devices have more memory, more features, so it's easier to upgrade them (from the manufacturer's perspective).

 

Does this answer your question a little bit? I think it's quite complex and confusing...

[abpostelnicu 7]

Indeed it's complex. I thought the z-wave standards are like the wifi standards well established and with a standard set of capabilities. 

Does the external antenna of the fibaro HC acts like an amplifier for the z-wave or is used for wifi?

[petergebruers 1,268]

It's more like an "evolving standard". For instance, dimmer 1 and dimmer 2 can do "scene activation". The newer "Relay 2" uses the more recent "central scene" class. The magic scenes of 4.120 hide this technical detail, so the end user might never now. But a subtlety creeps in: "scene activation" doesn't/can't tell the HC what it's capable of (eg. douple click, hold). When you click a button, it'll say something cryptic like "11". You'll find that number in the manual. The newer "central scene" can tell its capabilities, so you get a nice list of all buttons and capabilities of the device.

 

An antenna does not "amplify" the signal, like your home cinema amplifies sound. I say this to clear up a possible confusion. When RF people talk about antenna gain, they mean "how the antenna directs its signal". Like holding your hand against your ear. A simple antenna transmits and receives in all directions. It has no gain. A more complex antenna, like an array, like those mobile phone "boxes" on masts, transmit in a very horizontal plain. Transmitting energy in a vertical direction is wasted (in this application). A satellite dish has a very high gain, it bundles everything in a very narrow beam. A dish won't be useful for home automation. For your HC, a small amount of horizontal bundling might be benificial. A longer antenna will give you this. There are a few posts on this forum.

 

The antenna on the HC2 connects to your Z-Wave radio. It's not a wifi antenna. Without the antenna, performance will be reduced because there is no internal antenna, like the ones you find on some wifi routers. They're made of plastic, it allows waves to pass, so a builtin antenna will work. The aluminium case of the HC2 blocks radio waves...

[RH_Dreambox 189]

Petergebruers, thank you for your short and medium answers

But... Suppose that I have a mixed network of both the old Z-Wave and the new Z-Wave Plus units.

Will then all the devices behave as if they were regular Z-Wave devices?

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Quote

If you have a complete Z-Wave Plus system, where every device is of the new Gen5 variety, then you wouldn't have any issues. They would work together seamlessly (better than any Z-Wave system so far), and you would get all the benefits that the new features offer such as extended battery life, much longer range and increased bandwidth. However, this is probably not the way you'll initially use them - you'll use them with existing Z-Wave devices, sensors and controllers based on the 300-series and 400-series Z-Wave chips. This is where you need to be a little careful.

 

[A.Socha 133]

47 minut temu, RH_Dreambox napisał:

Petergebruers, thank you for your short and medium answers

But... Suppose that I have a mixed network of both the old Z-Wave and the new Z-Wave Plus units.

Will then all the devices behave as if they were regular Z-Wave devices?

Text below cutted from 

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half true. Device on chip series 500 can use 2 frequency for example for EU 868.40 MHz, 869.85 MHz, when first bandwidth is full module will switch to second. Older device with 300,400 chips will stay on first. So moving some traffic on second frequency give user "extra range "

 

z-wave plus can be on modules series 300 and 400 but device with series 500 must have z-wave Plus

the major benefit of z-wave plus i compatibility, when device got z-wave plus with certificate then that mean it will work with other certificate devices, other benefits from z-wave plus you can get on normal z-wave with higher SDK like 3.67 (explorer frame, NWI,NWE etc)

 

[RH_Dreambox 189]

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Edited April 10, 2017 by RH_Dreambox

[petergebruers 1,268]

Very old devices, that only communicate at 9.6kbit/second instead of 40k or 100k don't force your whole network to become an "old" network. But of course, while they communicate with a newer, faster device, the faster device has to stay in lower speed for the duration of "dialog". This will be slower, but on the other hand, I'll bet the device will be something really simple, like a switch with simple on-off commands. I don't think I own such a slow device... Maybe an Everspring HSP motion sensor. So you won't notice it.

 

My personal opinion is to only buy Z-Wave Plus devices. But I don't sell my old devices, because they are good enough...

 

The extra's I like that aren't often very well explained. Here is my interpretation:

• Extra radio channel = more bandwidth. Bandwidth and reach are related. The claims are vague because it is "a radio thing" and it's difficult to give numbers. Well, you can give numbers for controlled environments. But all houses are different...
• More recent Z-Wave SDK offering newer, more advanced commands (hidden from user).
• NWI = network wide inclusion. If enough of your devices support this, you can now include a device in it's final place. No need to move it closer to your HC2, just to include it.
• Explorer frames: without them, broken routing might "orphan" a devices. As the name suggests, an "explorer frame" is a kind of broadcast, that tries to find alternative routes and repair the mesh. I know of no way to see this mechanism in action. It's simply there and devices use it "in case of emergency".

Note: as far as I know, NWI and explorer frames existed before Z-Wave Plus, but only if the manufacturer used a SDK that had this feature. Now a manufacturer, aiming for Z-Wave Plus certification, *has* to use a minimum SDK that contains this technology. So it defines a minimum level of goodies that your device has to offer...