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HomeKit via software authentication?


northyorks
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Now that IOS11 is released and now has software authentication ability for HomeKit integration with other hardware will Fibaro add HomeKit support for the HC2?

 

No special chip is now required in the HC hardware... so Fibaro could now implement software solution for HomeKit to please Apple users!

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I don't think they have any choice but to implement it. Every other manufacturer will do it and if Fibaro wants to stay on top of the game they need to do it soon.

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Hello,

 

16 godzin temu, northyorks napisał:

Now that IOS11 is released and now has software authentication ability for HomeKit integration with other hardware will Fibaro add HomeKit support for the HC2?

No special chip is now required in the HC hardware... so Fibaro could now implement software solution for HomeKit to please Apple users!

Honestly, I have to admit that I can't wrap my head around that idea.

Home Center 2 and Fibaro system is based on Z-Wave connection protocol. It is a stand-alone system. On HC2 or HCL one can only use devices that communicate via Z-Wave.

HomeKit is a system created and developed by Apple. HomeKit accessories use BLE connection. Apple invites other manufactures to create HomeKit enabled devices, but only the accessories (which differ from modules for Z-Wave).

These are two completely separate systems.

 

@Momos, which manufactures will create a hub for HomeKit? Do you think that Apple will allow to use other devices to control HomeKit accessories than iPhone or iPad? Note that you have to have an iDevice, because even AppleTV does not control HomeKit accessories as a stand-alone controller.

At the moment, there are very few manufactures who even produce accessories for HomeKit so even the idea of any HomeKit controller not created by Apple is very far, far away.

 

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Yes you are absolutely correct in the statement that zwave and BLE are two different things.  And definitely in the future we will see smart hubs that integrate both protocols and maybe more.  But meanwhile, something which is much easier to do is just to integrate them at software level, like some of us do it now using PI's as a bridge.  A smart move in my opinion for any automation system would be to at least prepare this kind of integration themselves.  Give the users the possibility to add not only another zwave gateway, but other kind of gateways at least.  This could all be done at software level i think. Again i am not such tech savvy , but i see no reason why HC2 cant do what i do now with a PI :) 

 

PS: and please please for the love of GOD and all my 125 zwave devices and more to come, will we get Danfoss RS integrated properly until winter is here or not ? i can send cases of booze to development team just to motivate them :)  or i can tell my wife who can not navigate the Fibaro App that she should contact them and ask why pushing the button in the kids room doesn't raise/lower the temperature ;D

 

PS2: don't move PS1 to another topic :P 

 

Edited by Momos
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@T.Konopka,

 

I'm not iOS guy, but i saw some integration with this:

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, but it is only Control4 (i know this is Fibaro and not C4). But maybe integration with nfarina homebridge and Fibaro REST API can work. They seems to use JSON.

 

Also Fibaro could make statement, that you are not responsible for problems regarding integration nfarina, that you just send and receive commands.

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e Voila: The homebridge plugin that works and makes all Fibaro HC2 devices available in Homekit:

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Been using this for quite some time now and it works very well, but it would be better if Fibaro could implement this directly on the HC2.
And 

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 this has nothing to do with devices being BLE or Z-wave. When you implement Homekit support on the HC2, it will alow the Z-Wave (or other) devices to be available on Homekit, it doesnt matter if those devices are z-wave or anything else. Just like with the plugin I posted above.

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There is no install on the HC2...it uses home bridge ....so raspberry PI or MAC (or PC if you are brave!)

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10 hours ago, tcviper said:

e Voila: The homebridge plugin that works and makes all Fibaro HC2 devices available in Homekit:

Please login or register to see this link.

 

Been using this for quite some time now and it works very well, but it would be better if Fibaro could implement this directly on the HC2.
And 

Please login or register to see this link.

 this has nothing to do with devices being BLE or Z-wave. When you implement Homekit support on the HC2, it will alow the Z-Wave (or other) devices to be available on Homekit, it doesnt matter if those devices are z-wave or anything else. Just like with the plugin I posted above.

 

This does work well, very stable .... Set up of Pi a bit tricky with my expearence and instructions lacking for newbies.

This would be a great plugin.

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@T.Konopka
 

I think you may have mis-understood what the community/consumer wants or looking for. It is a bridging between Fibaro's z-wave ecosystem with HomeKit ecosystem. There are plentiful of appliances out there in the market for other automation platforms (e.g. ZigBee, LightwaveRF) now moving to bridge with HomeKit. Just naming a few popular ones in the market:

  • Philips Hue - it is actually ZigBee products but the Hue Bridge 2 bridges all Hue lightings to HomeKit where we can use HomeKit (e.g. Siri, Home app on iPhones/AppleWatch) to manual control or voice-assist control or simple automation via HomeKit while maintaining its own control through Hue app.
  • LightwaveRF - its generation 2 devices are launching and going to support bridging to HomeKit via its LightwaveRF Link Plus. (Ref: 

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    )

 

I hope the illustrations above is sufficient to allow Fibaro to comprehend what the market trend is and what we as consumers (as well as system integrators) wants, before we become obsolete and left to dust by competitors who are now more than ready to embrace HomeKit and works two-ways/directions (in short, bridging between the platform they are on and HomeKit).

Edited by chaicka
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Big +1 on what all have said. 

 

On 27/09/2017 at 5:40 PM, chaicka said:
  • Philips Hue - it is actually ZigBee products but the Hue Bridge 2 bridges all Hue lightings to HomeKit where we can use HomeKit (e.g. Siri, Home app on iPhones/AppleWatch) to manual control or voice-assist control or simple automation via HomeKit while maintaining its own control through Hue app.
  • LightwaveRF - its generation 2 devices are launching and going to support bridging to HomeKit via its LightwaveRF Link Plus. (Ref: 

    Please login or register to see this link.

    )

 

To add another example to the above - Heatmiser NEO. Heatmiser have Zigbee thermostats (much like HUE has Zigbee lights) which talk to their central hub, which exposes the devices to iOS via HomeKit and control via their own app, much like Fibaro have their own app. We want it exposed to HomeKit also.

 

Now Heatmiser and Philips have physical chips in their hubs to do this, but in iOS 11 this restriction has been removed, and it can be exposed via a software implementation. So much like Homebridge does, but doing it legitimately. So it should be perfectly clear to see the follow on to this massively popular bit of software is to code it natively into HC2/HCL. As others have said, if Fibaro don't follow suit on this, they could easily lose custom to those other vendors that do support it.

 

Edited by Cameleon
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As Fibaro have become an "Apple Homekit  Partner", releasing the first Homekit flush mountable devices for the European market - Homekit is potensially a much bigger market for Fibaro than Z-Wave. For that reason it is highly unlikely that they will jeopardize this golden oppertunity to be one of Apple´s closest allies in therms of getting some serious business out the Homekit platform, by making some "dirty fix" that will make the HC2 a HomekitBridge. 

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This is a tough decision, on the other hand I think the future is home controllers that supports multiple protocols (like homey). On the other hand, I don't want home kit into hc2. I don't use it and I want it to be a stable and feature rich controller for z-wave.

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I tend to agree on that too. If I wanted a controller with multiple protocols supported, I would have gone with smartthings. They're a one size fits all controller, with limited flexibility. But I want to stick with one protocol that i know "works". That's just my preference.. Apple has a horrible history of not being able to be "customizable". Hence why I like Android and it's "flexibility" that can adapt it to me. Apple has a one size fits all mentality. I love their computers, but hate the iPhone because I can't "alter" or tailor it's features to me, like can do with Android.  

 

When you start changing your business model to follow one brand, you start to alienate all the others that don't use it. Causing a mass Exodus toward other controllers.. 

 

Apple homekit is just one small nitch of the market that a few uses and Z-wave is huge. When I see larger controller makes start adopting homekit, like control4, than I start taking it a bit more serious....

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Simple solution is to make it a plugin. Its really not going to jeopardise any other solution or make the core system unstable if they do it as a plugin. Dont want it, simply don't install it. Find it unstable (and Homebirdge better), don't install it. The other option we've all missed is if they allow plugins again then the community could make it instead. 

 

IMO it doesn't eat into core Homekit area where end users are a totally Apple shop as they will stick to using ATV or iPad as their hub. To me it makes a nicer interface into HC2 for Apple users who want the true power of HC2 for home automation.

Edited by Cameleon
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Good point. I agree the UI is WAY BETTER and much cleaner looking when compared to the HC2 app. As a plug-in, yes, that would be a much smarter and strategically placed direction, than trying launch a whole separate set of "homekit" components. Causing new products to be placed on the back burner.. 

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Like it or not, there will never be one single dominance in any industry or technological space. It has been so in the past, it will be so in the future.

 

As of now, the combination of ZigBee & HomeKit is growing fast, much faster than z-wave as the simplicity just empowered more plain-vanilla consumers to have some simple form of 'SMART HOME'. That said, HomeKit just expanded its ability a little in latest iOS 11 to have more triggering attributes as well as multi-attributes than in iOS 10.

 

Perhaps try wearing multiple hats and think from multiple perspectives than our own 'tech-savvy' or 'geeky' perspective. As much as I have invested in z-wave quite significantly, sad to say there are areas where z-wave have not done so well in. Yes, it has the engine for power customisation which we have grown to love after investing heavily to learn LUA, JSON, etc. But is that the path for minority or the path for majority of the 'Smart Home-cum-Home Automation' market? Time will tell and history be made.

 

My 2 cents worth - it will be a combination of technologies. Whichever technologies (one or more) providing the simplicity of use/configure, ability to meet the day-to-day needs of consumers and ease to interoperate across will win majority of the market share. Ultimately, the technologies and businesses behind the technologies depends on revenue to sustain the business and R&D, without which, the business will just fold and be non-existence. As much as we may not like it, this is the golden rule of survival.

 

Fact is: I am seeing a growing disparity in ratio of z-wave adoption vs ZigBee+HomeKit adoption, thanks in large to established consumer brands like Philips, HoneyWell, etc. These players will more likely succeed in pushing out appliances in large quantity, use cases, etc that incorporate ZigBee which easily bridges to HomeKit or Google Home. The combination will be sufficient to just displace z-wave into majority and starve it to its natural death. Sigma alone is not enough to sustain the whole z-wave space. Anyone who knows the last 20 years of Sigma will know how it lost out to competition in several technologies space and keep moving to next to survive.

 

If I am on the board of Fibaro, I sure want to be the market leader in the position of Z-Wave+HomeKit. It is nothing to do with personal preferences or likes but all about survival of the firm (after all, is that not what broad members are there for - keep the firm afloat with the right direction?).

 

I see Fibaro embarking onto HomeKit is a small step towards survival (e.g. investing in backup path) and more of see where it leads to. Without this first step, it will just be on the reactive end and waiting for market displacement to suddenly fall on it be it in near or distance future. I am sure there is much we can learn from history such as Nokia, Motorola.

Edited by chaicka
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