Low battery status notification is not working (4.140)

[Landshark 8]

Hi All,

 

I just noticed that one of my Motion Sensors was not responding anymore although the battery status indicator was still showing a 80% full battery. I also didn't get a notification about a low battery status. After replacing it with a new battery it started working again so it looks like that the  low battery status notification is not working or the motion sensor isn't reporting the right battery level? (I'm using 4.140)

 

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Edited September 26, 2017 by Landshark
added information

[Momos 103]

Today i had the same with a Fibaro Door sensor.  But i do not think it is related to the latest FW update as i had this in the past also.   

[Igy 23]

Same happen to me with 2 motion sensors no matter the firmware (one 2 weeks ago and second almost a year ago). 

[nicohi 19]

Yes, motion sensor had always this bug, battery is not always going down...

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[Landshark 8]

@Fibaro, assuming that this a bug in the firmware of the Motion Sensor, are there any plans to fix this?

Edited September 27, 2017 by Landshark

[I.Srodka 4]

@Landshark, 

 

What firmware version does your Motion Sensor have?

[Landshark 8]

@I.Srodka version 3.2

 

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[Sankotronic 2,370]

Hi @Landshark,

 

I had such problems in the past but on last few firmware releases it is working just fine. Actually it is working too good sending e-mails every half hour for each slave of the device that battery was just about to die.  

 

Anyway, bear in mind that battery operated devices sleep most of the time and report battery status during wakeup period. If such device has difficulties to connect to the gateway then it can happen that battery actually die before it is successfully reported to the gateway. 

 

Can you check on this particular motion sensor what is the quality of communication with the gateway by preforming range test. Details how to do that you can find here

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I had same problem with two motion sensors v2.8 (first batch from 2015) but never with version v3.2. Of course in that time I was still building my z-wave network. Last time when I did range test on all of my motion sensors results where either direct communication with gateway or indirect using other devices but successful.

 

I had same experience also with old batch of Fibaro door/window sensors, batteries just die without any warning and battery was still shown green on HC2 web GUI interface.

[Landshark 8]

@Sankotronic, thanks for your feedback. I have tested the quality of communication and it has a direct connection to the gateway (Visual indicator is glowing green) so that couldn't be the problem.  The gateway is located 5 meters from the motion sensor.  I'm also using the motions sensors to secure my house so it should be nice if I get a warning when the battery status is getting low. Is there an alternative, more reliable way to read-out the battery status with for instance a scene?

Edited September 27, 2017 by Landshark
Typo

[Sankotronic 2,370]

8 minutes ago, Landshark said:

@Sankotronic, thanks for your feedback. I have tested the quality of communication and it has a direct connection to the gateway (Visual indicator is glowing green) so that couldn't be the problem.  The gateway is located 5 meters from the motion sensor.  I'm also using the motions sensors to secure my house so it should be nice if I get a warning that the battery status is getting low. Is there an alternative, more reliable way to read-out the battery status with for instance a scene?

 

Hi @Landshark,

 

Indeed your motion sensor should not have problem reporting battery status to the gateway since it has direct connection. I wrote scene that is run every day once and it checks all battery operated sensors for status. If all batteries are ok then nothing happens, but if any of the batteries are low then it sends e-mail with the list of sensors that battery should be replaced. It has 3 levels:

• battery at 30% or less then sends info that I need to order new batteries
• battery at 25% or less then sends reminder
• battery at 15% or less or 255% sends WARNING that battery must be replaced immediately

I selected first level at 30% because that is when HC marks sensor with red box and battery change color to red. 25% is reminder at half way and 15% is for some sensors minimum with certain batteries before it will not manage to report back if placed further away from gateway. 255% is reported by gateway when battery is at the end. Of course this levels I choose from my experience and they may not reflect real settings in HC.

 

Maybe @T.Konopka or @I.Srodka can share this information with us, at what battery level sensor is marked with red box and battery color is changed to red?

 

Let me finish scene and I will be glad to share it. 

[I.Srodka 4]

Hi @Sankotronic,

 

That's a very great idea for a scene.

 

There is no obvious value, which triggers color change. It depends on a device, some devices are more power hungry some are less and the warning indication may start at a different level.

 

However, there is an value in API which indicates this "red level" of battery. So you could make a scene with 3 levels like you did, but you could just adjust them slightly:

• 35% - Order new batteries
• low level (change to red) - Low battery
• 15% - Devices need to have their batteries replaced

What is more, could you shed some light on 255% status? What devices reports this value and where?

 

 

@Landshark,

 

Just as @Sankotronic mentioned. It is very unlikely with version v3.2. I can only suggest trying different brand of batteries. But it's a general remark about batteries, balancing on the edge of their power is tricky and sometimes it can die faster than you would expect, hence the device hops from some level to completely discharged state, without entering that low-battery state. Many factors may influence that, room temperature, date of production, time of not being used, etc.

Edited September 27, 2017 by I.Srodka

[Landshark 8]

14 hours ago, Sankotronic said:

 

Hi @Landshark,

 

Indeed your motion sensor should not have problem reporting battery status to the gateway since it has direct connection. I wrote scene that is run every day once and it checks all battery operated sensors for status. If all batteries are ok then nothing happens, but if any of the batteries are low then it sends e-mail with the list of sensors that battery should be replaced. It has 3 levels:

• battery at 30% or less then sends info that I need to order new batteries
• battery at 25% or less then sends reminder
• battery at 15% or less or 255% sends WARNING that battery must be replaced immediately

I selected first level at 30% because that is when HC marks sensor with red box and battery change color to red. 25% is reminder at half way and 15% is for some sensors minimum with certain batteries before it will not manage to report back if placed further away from gateway. 255% is reported by gateway when battery is at the end. Of course this levels I choose from my experience and they may not reflect real settings in HC.

 

Maybe @T.Konopka or @I.Srodka can share this information with us, at what battery level sensor is marked with red box and battery color is changed to red?

 

Let me finish scene and I will be glad to share it. 

 

@Sankotronic, that would be really nice if you can share it   although I still think it depends on the firmware of the sensor wether it provides the right battery status so it can be pickup up by the gateway. The only question is how that process exactly works?  Is the gateway actively polling for the battery status or is the sensor pushing the status?

44 minutes ago, I.Srodka said:

Just as @Sankotronic mentioned. It is very unlikely with version v3.2. I can only suggest trying different brand of batteries. But it's a general remark about batteries, balancing on the edge of their power is tricky and sometimes it can die faster than you would expect, hence the device hops from some level to completely discharged state, without entering that low-battery state. Many factors may influence that, room temperature, date of production, time of not being used, etc.

 @I.Srodka  the motion sensor is only a half year old and was still using the original battery which was shipped by Fibaro (Panasonic CR123A)

Edited September 27, 2017 by Landshark

[Sankotronic 2,370]

Hi @I.Srodka,

 

Thank you very much for the information about battery levels. I will adjust ordering battery level then to 35%. Reminder can stay at 25% and replacement at 15%.

 

Regarding 255% for battery level. This value I get from sensor for which Home Center start sending e-mails, shows red box around sensor and also red battery icon on the top of the page on the dashboard line. I'm not sure at which actual battery level this is set, but I guess it is at around 10%. Maybe you can ask technical department about this detail?

 

@Landshark,

 

Battery operated devices can't be pulled by gateway because when they are in sleep mode they don't listen to any requests. It is really up to the device to report status of the battery to the gateway during the wakeup time. This can be tricky sometimes but if z-wave mesh network is builded properly there should be no problems with that. Of course there is always possibility that battery power suddenly drop bellow level at which sensor is able to wakeup and send report.

 

This mostly depend on the quality of the batteries used.

 

Anyway, I tested my scene and it seems that it is useful and working OK. Before four weeks I start getting reports for low battery. It is sent once every day at 10:00. Here is chronology what was reported in matter of two weeks time:

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I remove reports that where same as previous one. Notice how some sensors battery level is dropping faster that the others. For example garage window dropped from 30% to 14% in just 4 days! Also Living room door dropped from above 30% to 22% so I immediately get warning that it has to be replaced. There was no info to order new battery first! Living room door sensor is few meters away from gateway so it has direct communication, but still there was no report between 30% and 22%.

 

On 14/09/2017 i replaced all reported batteries so after that no more reports for now! All batteries are for now OK.

 

I'm working on scene and VD and will share as soon as it is done.

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Sankotronic

[Landshark 8]

3 minutes ago, Sankotronic said:

if z-wave mesh network is builded properly

@Sankotronic, I'm looking forward for scene and VD.

 

About the z-wave network. How can you test if the z-wave network is properly builded? Is this done automatically or do you need to do this manually?

[Sankotronic 2,370]

25 minutes ago, Landshark said:

@Sankotronic, I'm looking forward for scene and VD.

 

About the z-wave network. How can you test if the z-wave network is properly builded? Is this done automatically or do you need to do this manually?

 

Hi @Landshark,

 

You can't really check z-wave network since there is no diagnostic tools available on HC. Mesh network should be automatically builded but when new battery devices are added then it can take some time since this kind of devices can find neighbor devices only during wakeup time. It is possible to speed up process by manually requesting devices to update their neighbor list and send it to the gateway but then you have to wakeup battery devices manually and this is good to repeat several times for just installed battery device.

 

To get stable z-wave network it is good practice to strategically position battery and main powered devices because battery devices can't relay other devices signal. For example, if you have several battery operated devices in room that is further away from where gateway is positioned, then depending on distance and walls it is good to have one or even two main powered devices placed between gateway and that room.

 

Also where people mostly make mistake is that they expect battery operated devices to start working properly as soon as positioned on its place. But if battery operated device is unable to directly communicate with gateway from that position then it will take some time to find neighbors that can relay signal to the gateway. This time usually depends on the wakeup time settings. That is why it is good to manually wake up device when it is placed on its position.

 

I was not completely right when I write that Fibaro doesn't have any diagnostic tools for z-wave network. Actually most of their devices has build in range test and that can be very helpful during building network since at least you can check if device can communicate directly with the gateway or uses other main powered devices to relay signal. Also it will show you if device is unable to communicate with the gateway and it is positioned on the border of the network.

 

 

[Landshark 8]

@Sankotronic, thanks for the explantation. I will take it into account. Do you think it make sense to reconfigure the mesh network once and a while with the feature below?

 

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[Sankotronic 2,370]

On 9/27/2017 at 6:09 PM, Landshark said:

@Sankotronic, thanks for the explantation. I will take it into account. Do you think it make sense to reconfigure the mesh network once and a while with the feature below?

 

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Hi @Landshark,

 

There is really no need for that, especially for complete network at once. For example, I did mesh reconfiguration only for sensors placed far away from gateway because they were reported dead every few days. But I did it only for them and their neighbors one by one. Also I do that only for newly installed devices if I notice that they have trouble with communication to gateway, but normally devices will find their position within network on their own. It just that battery operated devices need some time to do that.

 

BTW I just published Battery Check scene and it is waiting to be approved  

 

 

[Landshark 8]

@Sankotronic Great, I'm looking forward to test it. Thank you very much. Much appreciated.  Maybe Fibaro should introduce a MVP program. Then I will vote for you.

[Sankotronic 2,370]

4 minutes ago, Landshark said:

@Sankotronic Great, I'm looking forward to test it. Thank you very much. Much appreciated.  Maybe Fibaro should introduce a MVP program. Then I will vote for you.

 

Is that Microsoft Valuable Professional or Most Valuable professional program?  Well, I'm far from professional level, just a hobbyist that like to help others to get our homes pleasantly automated  

 

BTW is it possible that you translate few messages for this scene to Dutch please?