FGS-223 with single toggle switch

[csocaciu 0]

I am sorry if this topic has been started before, i have done a search, but there are literally hundreds of hits and i can't seem to find what i am looking for.

The point is i am trying to install a FGS-223 on a single lighting switch. I am not exactly tech proficient, but i have some basic knowledge.

I have tried to follow the schematics in the manual, but i don't know to what am i supposed to connect the Q1 output. I have 2 wires in my switch outlet, an L and an N, but if i connect Q1 to the L, the light turns on and off. 

 A similar story happened with a double switch where i had 2 L wires and an N inside the outlet. I managed to make one output work, but i have no option to connect Q2.

Edited November 18, 2017 by csocaciu

[Reinhold 18]

@csocaciu

On the L and N you conect the power. On the Q1 the wire to the lite and on S1 you connect the wallswitch. 

 

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Edited November 18, 2017 by Reinhold

[csocaciu 0]

thank you.

i know the idea, but in the wall switch i have only 2 wires. i have no earthing. so i tried to connect the power (2 wires) to L and N, also the L to the wall switch, the wall switch to S1. Q1 i tried to connect to one of the power wires, but if i connect to the phase it keeps switching on and off the light and if i connect it to the null wire it is just not working. in the tutorial movie there is always a spare null wire, a third wire. i don't have that.

[Reinhold 18]

@csocaciu

You must have a null wire otherwise it don't work.

[matt1981 37]

heres my connection with a single switch 2.  as Reinhold stated, it wont work without a Null wire. 

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[csocaciu 0]

thank you. i have read some more documents and it seems that i should use a dimmer instead of a switch for a 2-wire implementation.

[matt1981 37]

in the beginning i was also looking at using the dimmer 2's for all my light switches, but found out after a bit more research, each module only allowed one light per switch vs the switch 2's that came in double and single..  it wasn't cost effective, being each module was 55 euros and the a Hue white bulb is only 20 euros...  for example, our bedside lamps are on one module.

[petergebruers 1,268]

Maybe I'm nitpicking but I'd like to straighten some terminology here. I know, I sound like an old schoolmaster but using incorrect terminology can lead to confusion and worse... I am sorry, I could not resist.

 

L = "Line" or "Live". I prefer "Line" because it is a bit more accurate than Live. Some households have L1 and L2 maybe L3 with or without N. Electricians also tend to call then "phase" but yeah, seeing the correspondense between "L" and "P"hase - errr...

 

N = Neutral. Neutral is *never* "earth", is never "ground" and also not called "null" in English. German: Neutralleiter, in French: neutre. Neutral does not protect the user. Although its voltage might be close to earth level, it is not the same and it should never be connected to metal parts. Use PE for protection, not N. You might think all N wires are equal but they are not, your N probably belongs to a particular circuit and panel breaker. In that case N wires should run to the same circuit breaker as the L your load connects to. If you use an N from another circuit breaker, that is called a "Shared Neutral" or a "Borrowed Neutral" and it is a mistake (unless regulations allow connection of all N to a central distribution point, and your house is wired like this. But then you have single pole circuit breakers). Check local regulations. If your particular wall box does not contain an N and you need one (for instance, for your Fibaro Relay) then you have to add the N from the correct circuit... The whole story applies to those that do not have N + L but L1 + L2...

 

PE = "Protective Earth", sometimes reduced to "Earth" or "Ground". A low impedance (check regulations) connection to a point considered to be the ground potential. Several different earth systems exist, I think it is an advanced topic. The important message is... PE is not N. PE is used to connect metal parts of appliances and metal tubes, water pipes,... A yellow-green wire must not, under any circumstances, be used for anything else. Sometimes, people are temped, because they have an unused yellow-green wire (because they used modern cable in old house and there is no PE connection) but it really is not-done.

 

Except for the Fibaro Wall Plug, no other Fibaro module has a PE connection. The PE on the Wall Plug is not used internally, it is simply connected on both sides of the plug.

 

Color codes depend on where you live and when your installation was build... Check regulations! But as a guide:

 

Line: Black, Brown or Grey wire in Europe.

Neutral: Blue wire in Europe.

 

Earth: yellow-green striped or solid green worldwide, though it is legal in some countries for older installations to have a green live wire (so never trust green! trust only yellow-green striped!).

 

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Thank you for your patience, says schoolmaster Peter...

 

[csocaciu 0]

extremely useful and detailed explanation. as i mentioned before, i am not really an electrical specialist, my field is slightly different. for what i noticed, all the switches in my house have 2 wires (3 for double switches), so i suppose i need to make extensive works on my wiring if i want to make Fibaro work.

[petergebruers 1,268]

21 minutes ago, csocaciu said:

extremely useful and detailed explanation. as i mentioned before, i am not really an electrical specialist, my field is slightly different. for what i noticed, all the switches in my house have 2 wires (3 for double switches), so i suppose i need to make extensive works on my wiring if i want to make Fibaro work.

 

I feel your pain... My house is from 1958 and almost all switches lack a wire... Adding a wire can sometimes take the proverbial "5 minutes" - but sometimes you're out of luck and it takes an hour.

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Edited November 21, 2017 by petergebruers

[Reinhold 18]

@csocaciu

Can't you installing the switch not close to the licht? There you have al the wires that you need.

 

[csocaciu 0]

everywhere i have only 2 wires, actually there is nowhere a lead N cable. it seems to be a tradition to install this way, if i think it thru, you don't really need more wires for a simple installation. obviously, the electrician didn't think ahead to Fibaro when he made the wiring.

well, if you learn something new, it's a day well spent.

[petergebruers 1,268]

@csocaciu I like your optimism! You can also show your appreciation by clicking the "like" button on one of my posts... You can use a dimmer for lights, but I'd like to point out that even with the dimmer a 3-wire setup is preferred. What I would do, is make a detailed schematic of all the junction boxes, lights, sockets and which wire goes where. Then, like @Reinhold said, you might find alternatives, or find out how to add that extra wire...

[matt1981 37]

Look into the dimmer 2's a little more. It states verbatim that "It may be connected to two-wire or three-wire configuration so it can operate with or without neutral lead."

[petergebruers 1,268]

2 hours ago, matt1981 said:

Look into the dimmer 2's a little more. It states verbatim that "It may be connected to two-wire or three-wire configuration so it can operate with or without neutral lead."

 

I do not disagree with this statement, but there are drawbacks. If you use a 2-Wire, the dimmer and the load in series so they cannot be both 100% on or off. The dimmer kind of "steals" power from the load. With modern LED lighting and some CFL, you'll almost always have to buy a "Bypass 2" to connect across the load, this will make sure the lamp can be fully off and at the same time keep the dimmer happy. And you'll have to accept a somewhat limited dimming range. It depends also on the lamp, so I'd recommend a test before you do that... Note, a small leakage current passes through the dimmer, even when using a 3-wire setup. This may make LED or CFL glow or blink. In that case, you still need a bypass. So when you're new to Fibaro modules, I'd carefully consider the differences between a (double) switch module, Dimmer 2 in 2-wire and Dimmer 2 in 3-wire setup.

 

Can you agree with this?

Edited November 23, 2017 by petergebruers

[Reinhold 18]

@csocaciu the light switch is in the wall with 2 wires. is the light on the ceiling? There are were the wires from the switch coming out and the light have a N. Can you place the fibaro switch on the ceiling at the light?

[petergebruers 1,268]

2 minutes ago, Reinhold said:

@csocaciu the light switch is in the wall with 2 wires. is the light on the ceiling? There are were the wires from the switch coming out and the light have a N. Can you place the fibaro switch on the ceiling at the light?

 

If his house is similar to mine, it is wired like this... L goes to the switch. A wire goes from the switch to the lamp. The other side of the lamp goes to N. so, the lamp does not have L and the switch does not have N so the problem is the same.

[Reinhold 18]

Oke. But in my house i have in the ceiling a "box"(i don't know hou you name it in English) from here go the L and A to the switch an from here the A and l to the licht. In this box in the ceiling are all the wires you need.

[petergebruers 1,268]

13 minutes ago, Reinhold said:

Oke. But in my house i have in the ceiling a "box"(i don't know hou you name it in English) from here go the L and A to the switch an from here the A and l to the licht. In this box in the ceiling are all the wires you need.

 

Sure, I understand what you are saying, I do not disagree...

It is called a junction box (or a pattress if used to contain a switch).

But in my old house (1958), they are all painted over or they are under wallpaper. Also they are very small and it is hard to add a ,module because of all the wires. But sometimes you get lucky...

 

1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

What I would do, is make a detailed schematic of all the junction boxes, lights, sockets and which wire goes where. Then, like @Reinhold said, you might find alternatives, or find out how to add that extra wire...

 

[csocaciu 0]

3 hours ago, petergebruers said:

It is called a junction box (or a pattress if used to contain a switch).

But in my old house (1958), they are all painted over or they are under wallpaper. Also they are very small and it is hard to add a ,module because of all the wires. But sometimes you get lucky...

 

my house is somewhat newer, but still has the same configuration as you say. i have a junction box under my light fixture, i will try to run a wire from it to the switch socket, hopefully the tube is not damaged in the wall.