Single Switch 2 FGS-213

[Reinhold 18]

I have a problem with the Single Switch 2. I have a Daikin hybrid heating on this switch and if my heating 2000W used than the switch turns off. The power stays under the 2100W but after a couple off minutes it turns off. But he can switch 2500W of power. I use this only for measuring. 

 

[Jamie mccrostie 82]

38 minutes ago, Reinhold said:

I have a problem with the Single Switch 2. I have a Daikin hybrid heating on this switch and if my heating 2000W used than the switch turns off. The power stays under the 2100W but after a couple off minutes it turns off. But he can switch 2500W of power. I use this only for measuring. 

 

Its not designed for that type of load. That loads inductive  and more than the switch is rated at, 2kw about 9 Amps at 240v

You need to slave a relay  off your Switch 2 and loose your consumption figures or fit a Aeotec heay duty switch . 

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Edited February 28, 2018 by Jamie mccrostie

[Reinhold 18]

@Jamie mccrostie

Thanks for you reply. But i don't youse it for switch the hybrid on or off. Only for energy measuring and with a relay i can't doe energy measuring. And i have chosen this one because it can operate an electric device up to 2.5kW.

[petergebruers 1,265]

Unfortunately, it is restricted to resistive loads. The FGS-2x3 has fast over-current protection and it trips even when you do not switch the relay (and use it as a power meter).

 

Specifications have been discussed extensively here:

 

Possible solutions for "difficult loads"... also in depth... here:

 

 

 

 

[Reinhold 18]

Thanks for you answer. 

But al the sellers and also Fibaro says 1x2.5kw but this is not working if i read in you links. I must have a different device. 

 

[petergebruers 1,265]

Yep, somewhere there is confusion... And it certainly is not your fault!

 

I quote from FGS-213 manual version 1.2:

 

"Rated load current: IEC standards: 8 A" - that is for resistive load

 

That is 230 V x 8 A = 1850 W, not 2500 W

 

I do not see 2500 W in the manual.

 

But then when I look at a random web shop I see some sell it as a " 2500 W module", but not all of them!

 

Vesternet is closer to the truth:

 

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"Single Switch 2 module to control loads up to 2KW (8A)"

 

So that is closer to the calculated 1850 W... I bet Fibaro gives you a few % extra before it shuts down so let's say 2000 W.

 

Specs of Fibaro Wall Plug on the other hand:

 

"11A, 110-230V, 50/60 Hz - continuous load
13A, 110-230V, 50/60 Hz - momentary load"

 

So 230 V x 11 A = 2500 Watt. But it will turn off if the load has peak current (even for a very short moment) above 13 A... 

 

Then the older "Relay Switch" FGS - 211:

 

"Rated load current for AC: 16A / 230V 50/60Hz"

 

So that is... 3.5 kW!

 

But in fact, that older relay just has less protection and no power measurement...

 

Can you post the specs of the Daikin? Notably, "Power" and "Current" and also "Power Factor" aka "cos phi"?

 

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by petergebruers

[jimicr 90]

To be more honest, they shouldn't use KW, but KVA. KW= KVAxcos phi. 

in resistive loads cos phi =1 so then KW= KVA.

Edited March 1, 2018 by jimicr

[petergebruers 1,265]

15 minutes ago, jimicr said:

To be more honest, they shouldn't use KW, but KVA. KW= KVAxcos phi. 

 

I almost agree, say 90%... I might sound a bit geeky, but here are the reasons why I do not agree 100%:

 

1) All Fibaro relays are specified for "resistive loads only", so "cos phi" = PF = 1.0 and kVA=kW. They cannot mention kVA because they do not specify inductive or capacitive loads.

 

2) The newer relays use an electronic CURRENT limit (and the internal relays have *current* specs as well).

 

In fact, I think it is better NOT to mention kW or kVA because those units suggest it is "a power limited device". But this is not the case... The Wall Plug turns off above 11 A... it does not depend on the power. Of course, we can say "11 A nominal at 230 V nominal is 2530 W nominal (resistive load)".

 

The manual of the FGS-2x3 does not use "kW" nor "kVA" but "A" and I think that is correct.

Edited March 1, 2018 by petergebruers

[jimicr 90]

Thanks for your answer Peter, I didn't read the manuals, so I didn't know it wasn't mentioned.

I totally agree that they should only state max A and resistive loads only.

example where people might choose the wrong device or choose not to add a dry relay:

  

Shops use KW and that might throw people of guard, so very theoretical:

I am looking for a switch smart relay,

I have this device that has a cos phi of 0.5 so I can double the Amps and still be safe within the max power rating KW.

i.e 2.5KW = 250V x 10A, x 1cos phi = 250V x 20A x 0.5cos phi.

 

What I wanted to say is that if people know about the cos phi and are looking for a specific relay or switch for a device they might be thrown in the wrong direction because the shops don't mention resistive only.

 

Jim

 

 

[petergebruers 1,265]

1 minute ago, jimicr said:

What I wanted to say is that if people know about the cos phi and are looking for a specific relay or switch for a device they might be thrown in the wrong direction because the shops don't mention resistive only.

 

Oh yes, I fully agree with that statement!

[Reinhold 18]

@petergebruers

I have done some googling and you have right.

That is 230 V x 8 A = 1850 W, not 2500 W

but i have changed somting and i have use now a wall plug. But this one is 2500w and this one is also shutting off if the power is 2000w.

i order some other brand to power measurements i hope that Fibaro coming with a module that can more than 2500w.

[petergebruers 1,265]

Ah. There are 2 possible explanations

 

1) Not all Watts are equal. Have a look at what @jimicr said:

 

On 1-3-2018 at 8:32 PM, jimicr said:

i.e 2.5KW = 250V x 10A, x 1cos phi = 250V x 20A x 0.5cos phi.

 

Yes, you are missing an important specification of the load, called "cos phi". Does your load have a motor? Or a switched mode power supply? Then cos phi is not 1.0. It might be 0.5, it depends on a lot of factors.

 

What his example means is this... If you have a motor, 2.5 kW may take 20 A to run the motor, instead of the 11 A you expected... That is, calculated at 230 V, jimicr uses 250 V because that is often used to specify nominal power, it is only 10% difference and it is easier to calculate. So the wall plug shuts down because of the amps. Not because of the Watts. You need a good power meter that can display active power, reactive power, cos phi (power factor), amps and volts if you cannot find the specification of your load. I have tested the wall plug, it meets its specifications...

 

The second explanation: mayby your load has peaks, if they exceed 13 A the relay turns off.

 

Does this help?

 

 

[Reinhold 18]

I have look into this problem and yes it have a peak. That's the problem if the device its running it's working fine. But if it's starting there is a peak.