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How "OFF" can a valve be?


marcwau

Question

Over the weekend, I upgraded several FGT-001's from 4.0 to 4.3 (after upgrading the HC2 to 4.170).

I reinstalled them and again noticed that some of the most basic functions still don't work.

 

In the bedroom, I have two Heat Controllers, with one shared temperature sensor.

Before going to bed, I manually set both valves to OFF (white), as we sleep with the window open.

The HC's are NOT part of a zone or a schedule, the room temperature was 12°C, so when you manually set the valves to OFF, you would expect that they simply remain shut.

 

They didn't. They literally kept me awake. Several times per hour, the motor started spinning... WHY?

Regardless of the secret Fibaro algorithm, OFF should mean OFF.

 

I think we desperately need an update to the template of these valves, so that we can see what is happening and why.

A simple (read-only) percentage bar that shows the actual position of the actuator - not just the colour of the ring - and a line of text whenever the FGT decides to do something - what it does and why.

 

The black box with info for Fibaro is limited, because the black box cannot tell Fibaro all the circumstances... is the boiler on or off, is the window really open, were doors opened, etc. But WE know that, so we could draw conclusions that Fibaro can't, if only we knew what this mysterious device is doing. 

 

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9 minutes ago, marcwau said:

In the bedroom, I have two Heat Controllers, with one shared temperature sensor.

You might want to try without the external sensor until they release the next firmware update.

 

10 minutes ago, marcwau said:

I manually set both valves to OFF (white), as we sleep with the window open.

The HC's are NOT part of a zone or a schedule, the room temperature was 12°C, so when you manually set the valves to OFF, you would expect that they simply remain shut.

 

Thanks for reporting this. I think there are several aspects in that problem description:

  • Actuator noise. I have noticed this when using the valve set to "regulation". You probably talk about a whirring sound, lasting about 1-2 seconds (I did not time it). This is something I have reported and Fibaro told me they can improve this, because they can control time and motor speed.
  • The fact that the valve sometimes produces these "long strokes" instead of more subtle sounds is something I can discuss in private, if you like this kind of deep discussion. Not that it is a big secret, but as you mention yourself, there is a lot to know about the specifics of your heating system and heating systems in general (water temperature, pressure differential, valves, boiler control, ...)
  • The fact that the valve is OFF but still does that is something I have not noticed, because I have not tried that yet. The blackbox logs contain enough information for them to explain what is going on. Like you, I expect "OFF" to mean really closed and when I control the TRV in this way, it does that. But I never kept the FGT to that position for more then, let's say, maybe an hour. So it is possible that I've missed the reported behaviour...
20 minutes ago, marcwau said:

Several times per hour, the motor started spinning... WHY?

 

Talking out loud, I would see I see only three possible explanations: (a) it reverted to temperature control mode instead of "off" (b) the "external probe" algorithm has an impact (c) FGT firmware bug. You should be able to see (a) in the event panel and (b) is why Is suggest you try without the probe.

 

23 minutes ago, marcwau said:

I think we desperately need an update to the template of these valves, so that we can see what is happening and why.

 

I agree. I keep mentioning to Fibaro how awesome it would be, if we could read the logs. Maybe that can change, but not right now. I think I can post why they encrypt the log... It contains sensor data (which is not terribly secret) and diagnostic data at the same time. I have suggested, they could make part of that sensor data visible while still encrypting the "sensitive" part. I do not know if that will ever happen...

 

28 minutes ago, marcwau said:

The black box with info for Fibaro is limited, because the black box cannot tell Fibaro all the circumstances...

 

To interpret the behaviour, they certainly need more information. I used your argument, to ask for not encrypting the data. But that does not mean the blackbox logs on its own are useless. The FGT is an autonomous thermostat, and the logs contain all information to diagnose the thermostat!

 

If you want to help Fibaro to improve the FGT (and by doing that you also help me), and want to understand what is going on, and want to discuss your heating system + FGT behaviour with me and Fibaro, then please send me the log via PM...

 

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