Radiator issues

[eureka 9]

Hi,

 

just installed 3 new heat controllers with seperate temp sensor. I’m having issues with the temperature though. Temp sensor measures 28 degrees! (It is bloody hot in here). However the radiator is still bloody hot even though I troed a temp of 17 degrees and even OFF.

 

How can it still not cool down? I do hear the valve moving when changing temp.

 

using firmware .0 as .3 won’t install...

Edited March 31, 2018 by eureka

[petergebruers 1,268]

1 hour ago, eureka said:

How can it still not cool down?

Under certain conditions, this happens on 4.0. There might be other causes, if you want to find out, please send the "blackbox logs" after you get the TRVs to run 4.3. BTW Fibaro is already working on the next FW, because 4.3 improves this but does not completely solve it for everyone. The only workaround is a script that uses some sensor in the room and sends on/off commands. There is no ready-made code to do that.

 

What happens if you try to update the FW?

[eureka 9]

I get the following error if I try to update:

 

Status: fail - file size error. contact fibaro support.

[petergebruers 1,268]

3 minutes ago, eureka said:

Status: fail - file size error. contact fibaro support

 

Please exclude and include the FGT, as instructed by Mr. @m.roszak here (plus some other useful info):

 

 

[eureka 9]

I read the instruction but it's not completely clear to me. Do I need to upgrade to homecenter beta before excluding and including. Or what is the approach?

[petergebruers 1,268]

Update to HC 4.170 and that is not a beta.

[eureka 9]

Ok, i got it updated now but I'm worried even more now... I changed the temperature to very low (10 degrees) and very high (30 degrees) but in both cases I do not hear the radiator valve moving whatsoever... the radiator is steaming hot and temperature is already 25 degrees...

 

EDIT: I was able to make the radiator move by putting 280.0.1 to off...

Doing it on the radiator valve itself did not do anything before that. After I set 280.0.1 to OFF i hear radiator valve if I change it. However, it valve does not always adjust if I adjust temperature. 

 

I also tried to find these black box logs but I cannot find them. Where should they be?

 

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Tried it with another room as well and what I don't understand is that there are 2 items (hidden and visible) in which I can set temperature and they can have different values (while it is the same device).How can that be (device 285)?

 

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Edited April 1, 2018 by eureka

[petergebruers 1,268]

What is the color of the ring when you touch it?

Does the valve close when you turn the TRV to off (white)?

Did you notice self calibration (motor spins several seconds) after the update?

Did yo try manual calibration? Enter menu, click "white" option then the motor should spin. Check HC after one minute, if it does not report calibration error, calibration is ok. Did you wait several minutes after inclusion and move to the correct room, to allow transfer of the schedule?

[eureka 9]

What is the color of the ring when you touch it?

Depends on the level of heat i'm requesting

 

Does the valve close when you turn the TRV to off (white)?

Yes, it seems to work when I put it at MAX or OFF. in between it sometime works but if I set it from 17 to 25 degrees most of the times it doesn't do anything..

 

Did you notice self calibration (motor spins several seconds) after the update?

No, did not hear it do that

 

Did yo try manual calibration?

I tried it and that works, no errors in HC. Tested the device afterwards and MIN / MAX still does the trick but in between it sometimes works but most of the times nothing happens.

 

Did you wait several minutes after inclusion and move to the correct room, to allow transfer of the schedule?

I excluded and included the device then did firmware update. Afterwards I moved it to the correct room. Did not explicitly wait 1 minute to that last thing.

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

3 minutes ago, eureka said:

What is the color of the ring when you touch it?

Depends on the level of heat i'm requesting

So we can rule out a communication error. If you change the temp via app or browser, and the LED changes to the right color, that is OK.

 

4 minutes ago, eureka said:

Does the valve close when you turn the TRV to off (white)?

Yes, it seems to work when I put it at MAX or OFF. in between it sometime works but if I set it from 17 to 25 degrees most of the times it doesn't do anything..

This means it is not a mechanical issue.

 

It is not supposed to react immediately either (when you set a temperature, on/off is nearly immediate) , it depends on the algorithms and it tries to conserve battery power.

The FGT can either perform small adjustments, or if you have a big radiator, high water temperature, external heat sources or a combination, it might do open/close cycles (motor spins 1-2 seconds).

 

Do you notice any movement of  the actuator?

 

Does it keep room temperature after the update?

 

If you use the external probe, in some cases, the valve may still heat to much. In that case, you might want to try without the sensor.

 

The "Blackbox logs" record set-point, temperatures, valve positions fairly detailed, so if you suspect it is still not OK please share the logs...

 

11 minutes ago, eureka said:

Did you notice self calibration (motor spins several seconds) after the update?

No, did not hear it do that

 

I do not think you have a calibration issue, but if you are curious, you can try anyway. It is the "white" option of the menu. After you select it, the motor should spin. If it does not and the LED fades, then it did not register a "click", so you'll have to try again.

 

13 minutes ago, eureka said:

Did you wait several minutes after inclusion and move to the correct room, to allow transfer of the schedule?

I excluded and included the device then did firmware update. Afterwards I moved it to the correct room. Did not explicitly wait 1 minute to that last thing.

 

In some cases, like putting it to standby, or moving to a certain room, the FGT has to transfer the schedule and this can make Z-Wave and HC sluggish for a few minutes. That is why I've mentioned this... If you want to test the effect, you can click on "synchronize" then see what happens.

[eureka 9]

Quote

Do you notice any movement of  the actuator?

How can I check? I do hear the radiator making noise (so i assume the motor is spinning).

 

Quote

Does it keep room temperature after the update?

That's why I got suspicious, throughout the whole day I have temperature in that room at 17.5 degrees. However, measured temperature was 22 degrees.

 

Quote

 

If you use the external probe, in some cases, the valve may still heat to much. In that case, you might want to try without the sensor.

 

 

 

I do use the external probe. Is it known in which situations it overheats? Also, I bought the device specifically because of the external sensor. The radiator is placed below a window so temperature at radiator is not representative for the room temperature

 

Quote

The "Blackbox logs" record set-point, temperatures, valve positions fairly detailed, so if you suspect it is still not OK please share the logs...

I tried to find them but do not see them anywhere in advanced settings. Where should they be located?

 

Quote

I do not think you have a calibration issue, but if you are curious, you can try anyway. It is the "white" option of the menu. After you select it, the motor should spin. If it does not and the LED fades, then it did not register a "click", so you'll have to try again.

 

Did that and I heard the thing spinning and the whole shebam

 

Quote

If you want to test the effect, you can click on "synchronize" then see what happens.

I just pressed synchronise in advanced settings so hopefully that helps..

 

 

Also, What I don't understand is that there are hidden devices (same device but with the .0.1). in those hidden devices you can also change temp and  whether it is heating or not. So in this case the hidden device states that it is heating to 26.5 degrees and the other one is on 17.5 degrees while it's the same device. As you can see the temperature in the room is way above radiator temp set (which is always at this temp

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Edited April 1, 2018 by eureka

[petergebruers 1,268]

40 minutes ago, eureka said:

How can I check? I do hear the radiator making noise (so i assume the motor is spinning).

Yes, the only indicator available to end-users is the "sound" of the motor spinning

 

44 minutes ago, eureka said:

That's why I got suspicious, throughout the whole day I have temperature in that room at 17.5 degrees. However, measured temperature was 22 degrees.

Hard to tell, without know the situation. I would say: if you know room temperature would drop to that 17.5 degrees, if you simply closed the valve or used another thermostat, then it is not looking good. But really hard to tell from a distance.

 

54 minutes ago, eureka said:

I do use the external probe. Is it known in which situations it overheats?

Yes, I have discussed this with Fibaro. They have analysed my sensor data and blackbox logs. They are working on a fix. All I can say is... it depends on the temperature difference between the head and the external probe.

 

55 minutes ago, eureka said:

Also, I bought the device specifically because of the external sensor. The radiator is placed below a window so temperature at radiator is not representative for the room temperature

Same here. I own 2xFGT plus external sensor. If everything goes to plan, the next FW should fix this. Removing the external probe is a temporary workaround.

 

46 minutes ago, eureka said:

I tried to find them but do not see them anywhere in advanced settings. Where should they be located?

Try soft reconfigure or exclude and include. The new template (from 4.162 and later) is not applied automatically and older versions did not have this option.

 

It should appear under "Schedule synchronization".

 

48 minutes ago, eureka said:

Did that and I heard the thing spinning and the whole shebam

 

Good.

 

49 minutes ago, eureka said:

What I don't understand is that there are hidden devices

 

They are hidden, because the HC does not need them. They represent the FGT in a "more generalized" way so to speak... The interface you use  (with the nice picture of the FGT) is more sophisticated. Users of non-fibaro controllers have the question "the other way around". They wonder why they see none of the stuff HC users get in their browser...

 

 

 

 

[DennisDM 3]

are the trv's on 4.3? sounds like they still on 4.0?

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

6 minutes ago, DennisDM said:

are the trv's on 4.3? sounds like they still on 4.0?

I am curious why you ask this. I own 2xFGT + probe, running 4.3 for several weeks, and I do not see a clear indication in the previous post why they would still be on 4.0. So this is an honest question: what makes you think the update failed?