Multiple Rooms with FGT-001 + Electric Heat Boiler

[martinpreiss 4]

Hi everybody,

 

so I bought 5x FGT-001 to exchange for my Danfoss Valves in a good faith, that it reports if it's Closed or Open and easy integration to HC2.

 

But not at all!

 

So FIBARO please explain me this. We in Czech as in Poland, we do have a HEAT BOILER. A device that are basically ON or OFF (floor heating, radiator supply boiler etc), they supply hot water or not. Then you have multiple rooms with radiators where you should put FGT-001. Or all Fibaro Engineers live in one room? Cos I can't understand, if this should be SMART product, why this can't do multi-room heating out of a box. Please explain.

 

So I tried:

the linked heat devices and heat panel approach thru the manual on Fibaro official pages.
If I make linked heat device for each room, then one room that needs heat will turn on the heater boiler, the next room that dont need heat, will turn off the heater boiler in a minute. So Linked Heat Devices doesn't work!

 

Questions:

1] will the linked heat devices be smart anytime soon, so they will not turn on, off every minute? and will they understand if one other linked device is asking for water, the next will keep it on?

 

2] Why, oh Why, the FGT-001 will not state it's status if it's CLOSED or OPEN? If there will be only one VALUE that says I'm open = 1 or I'm closed = 0, then we can simply call the heat boiler with simple, simple lua.

 

3] How I can make MULTI-ROOM Heating working? How I can protect a pump, that circulates the fluid in the system from over strain when all FGT-001 are closed?  (Only solution I can think of is by-pass or a pressure sensor in the fluid circuit, that turns the heat off, but that is not smart home, smart or 21st century solution)

 

4] I use LUA now that check the status of temperature vs set temperature on the FGT-001, but that has few issues, if the temp sensor is lost, then it feels like 0degrees and it starts heating, even that all FGT-001 are closed. Does anybody has more smarter script?

 

 

Thank you for helping me!

[wienog 107]

15 hours ago, martinpreiss said:

Does anybody has more smarter script?

Sorry, no. 

I tried everything but didn't get the FGT"s to work.

Bought the Honeywell Evohome system and connected it to HC2 through Remco Boer"s excellent VD. It works flawlessly.

One remark on your point 3): i  fear a bypass valve is the only easy and available solution, unless you would swithch boiler  and pump off and on at the same moment (most boilers let the pump work for 5 to 30 minutes after the boiler was stopped to circulate the already hot water and not loose the heat in the boiler itself). The good news is that most modern boilers already have such a valve incorporated. Indeed, you never can predict that somehow all occupants in all rooms want to switch off their radiators at the same time, even without a sophisticated domotics scheme.

Edited October 7, 2018 by wienog

[Guest Sebdb66]

We have also given up on the FGT , we install Fibaro systems and we have had to return around 30 FGTs as they constantly cause issues.

Swapped them for Danfoss and problems solved

 

We even had a problem sending them back as a few were constantly recalibrating so the motor was running and the courier wouldnt accept them because of teh noice coming from the box! All the instructions for resetting them didnt work.

 

Appalling support from Fibaro that just told us to wait for new firmware versions, that is no help for a customer who wants to control their heating 

 

 

[martinpreiss 4]

That doesn't help. Anybody from the FIBARO reading this? Come guys, it must pop-up on your work computers. Come on Poles, everybody is complaining and you don't even try to reason with it?

[petergebruers 1,268]

I do not have a crystal bal... But I think the FGT won't report open close status any time soon. I had a long, private discussion with @wienog and several other users, and if you want to do boiler control based on open/close status, then this product is not for you (*). This is a user support forum, so it is a good place to exchange ideas... 

 

Because I do not want to do boiler control, I am not able to make any further recommendations.

 

EDIT (*) To be on the safe side: neither Danfoss LC12, LC13 are well suited, nor their rebranded variants (e.g. Popp) - LC14 only exists on paper ... there aren't that many choices... And your old, mechanical valves did not do boiler control either.

Edited October 24, 2018 by petergebruers

[jakub.jezek 370]

I have created VD (it's not best, but it works), that solves control of boiler from multiple zones.

 

When i will translate it i will post it here.

[martinpreiss 4]

1 minute ago, jakub.jezek said:

When i will translate it i will post it here.

 

Well I'm Czech, so you don't need to, or I can help you.

[petergebruers 1,268]

15 minutes ago, jakub.jezek said:

I have created VD (it's not best, but it works), that solves control of boiler from multiple zones.

 

A word of caution... These users have TRIED similar solutions... Usually the VD from Dave:

 

 

The issue is... You do not get open/close status from the FGT.

 

So it works on the assumption, if any room temperature (reported by WHICH sensor? It matters!) is too low, you have to turn on the boiler. But how much difference is acceptable?

 

Usually these people, wanting boiler control, also expect the radiator to heat when that script determines "a room is too cold".

 

But (a) the valve does not have a "set to % open" command (b) the algorithm has its own ways to open the valve (trying hard NOT to overshoot, conserving battery and noise, ...) and that ussually fights with attempts to control them. I would say, as a rule of thumb, add +1.5 °C to the reported temperature (which at the moment only works if you have an external probe, that might change with a firmware update) to open them and -1.5 °C to close them... but then you are degarding it to an ON/OFF valve with noise and bad performance... so it really is not a very good solution. I cannot think of anything better, maybe it exists.

 

Before you think... Peter is posting some random thoughts here... I have had long, private discussions with many users, and I also have many posts about this, and I can tell you: scripts to control these valves and to control the boiler... it's difficult to do what users want and get accurate control!

 

Maybe join forces with Dave... much of this has been said and tried before!

 

BTW users often think I want to try to convince them that the FGT works. Yes, it works FOR ME, and at the same I *always* acknowledge their problems: the FGT's do not form some kind of "intelligent network of TRVs" that automatically do boiler control, or learn to heat the room 1/2 hout before you need it... It is an electronic thermostat, you can send a setpoint to it, or a schedule, and it will spin the valve... no feedback... no position control.

Edited October 24, 2018 by petergebruers

[jakub.jezek 370]

1 minute ago, petergebruers said:

The issue is... You do not get open/close status from the FGT.

That is why my VD work with setpoint and temperature sensor. If Setpoint is higher, than dedicated temperature sensor, then turn on boiler. If not turn it off.

 

Example, what i'm using:

Please login or register to see this code.

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

 

This is an example of FGT controlling room temperature.

 

Does it work with your algorithm? When do you turn your boiler on and off?

 

This data was extracted from black-box, so it has valve position. That is not available via Lua.

 

Please login or register to see this image.

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And this one:

 

Before you say: ROOM overshoots but this room has a south facing window, so the valve closes but the sun has enough power to heat an extra 0.5 - 1.0 °C.

 

Edited October 24, 2018 by petergebruers