dimmer 2 problems, flickering lights

[akatar 207]

i did a complete toilet renovation and i decided to use a dimmer 2 for the lights, so there was no need to install the blue (neutral) wire.

when i install the dimmer 2 the lights flicker continuesly, even if the dimmer is off.

even the green led on the module itself goes on and off.

 

hc2 message: [19:24:58] ID 435: Voltage Drop/Drift. Reduce the maximum brightness level.

 

that is not correct, voltage is around 225 volt and when i connect the lights directly the lights are burining bright and steady.

 

someone any ideas? thoughts? anything?

 

 

[petergebruers 1,265]

5 minutes ago, mohammad abu hantash said:

lost of fans here suggested that they solved the issue by installing another relay after the Fibaro relay, i said that to my electrician and he said yes this looks logical things i don't know if it will work 'i have to test that'

I Agree to all of that.

 

5 minutes ago, mohammad abu hantash said:

BTW the welding happen only on fast switching i don't see the issue if i did slow switching for the relay

 

This is a bit speculative, since I don't know the exact design of the power supplies.

 

 

A lot of them use an NTC to limit inrush. The NTC is a resistor, but when it heats its resistance drops. The idea is: limit current at the start, but don't limit it when the supply is operational.

 

It is a reliable solution with one downside... If you turn off the supply, the NTC is still hot. You have to let it cool and that can take 30 - 60 seconds (order of magnitude) to let it regain some resistance and work as an inrush limiter.

 

If you turn off the relay... Then wait until the LEDs are off , which means the capacitor is empty again, but before the NTC has cooled, then the next turn-on might cause a higher peak than expected. The voltage at turn-on can be anything between 0 and 325 V. The FGS-223 and FGD-212 would wait until it is 0 but the older modules don't do that.

 

13 minutes ago, mohammad abu hantash said:

I hear the tick sound from relay but the lights take small delay to turn on

Yes, although the main capacitor of the power supply is charged in 0.02 seconds, the auxiliary capacitor that make the SMPS controller work probably takes more time and some SMPS controllers even add a bit of delay.

 

I checked the datasheet of a (randomly selected) power supply, MeanWell  LPS-50: Setup time: 0.1 s, Rise time: 0.04 s so that is quite fast.

 

The LPH-18-24 on the other hand: Setup time: 1500ms, , Rise time: 30ms. This one is "quite slow"!

 

[10der 832]

Mmmm

LED? Do you use bypass? Without bypass I was have the same issues here

[akatar 207]

2 hours ago, 10der said:

Mmmm

LED? Do you use bypass? Without bypass I was have the same issues here

first i tried without bypass,

then the lights keeps flickering, even when i turn the dimmer2 off,

then i tried a bypass and even then the lapps are lid for a couple of seconds and then they flicker or turn off:

with a message, to much or to low power....

[akatar 207]

Well,

The dimmers2 needs a neutral wire if you want to use leds…..

Without it the dimmer2 will not complete callibration mode and will turn itself off and on.

I moved the dimmer 2 above the ceiling, there is a neutral wire and now everything works fine.

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

@akatar have you got that working without bybass ?

So is it general rule whrn using LEDs with drivers i should connect dimmer to neutral to get them working correctlly ??

As i understand from fibaro support any LED loads below 50 watt i should use bypasser is that correct because i want to buy bulk of dimmers to control LED spot lights

Thanks 

Edited December 16, 2018 by mohammad abu hantash

[akatar 207]

@mohammad abu hantash it's working with a bypass, i don't know what the general rule is.

I would say, buy a bypass, it wil cost you around 10 euro's.

 

i also have leds that uses 7 watt without a bypass.

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

10 minutes ago, akatar said:

@mohammad abu hantash it's working with a bypass, i don't know what the general rule is.

I would say, buy a bypass, it wil cost you around 10 euro's.

 

i also have leds that uses 7 watt without a bypass. 

 

@akatar thanks alot i will buy bypass and will try , just you said you have leds that uses 7 watts without bypass how many of them installed in the same switch ? and do they have LED driver or converter ?

 

thanks alot for your help

[akatar 207]

@mohammad abu hantash they are 4 x 220vac dimmeble led lights, so no led driver or power supply.

 

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

@akatar thanks don't  you have any experience on non dimmeble LEDs because my home just have LED with power supply ?

[akatar 207]

@mohammad abu hantash you need dimmeble leds to use a dimmer2 to dim those leds.

some leds with power supply can be dimmed.

 

are they 12/24vdc leds?

Edited December 16, 2018 by akatar

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

27 minutes ago, akatar said:

@mohammad abu hantash you need dimmeble leds to use a dimmer2 to dim those leds.

some leds with power supply can be dimmed.

 

are they 12/24vdc leds?

 

yes i think they are 12v i don't need them to dim just on and off and as i got from fibaro support team that dimmer 2 can be configured as switch when it calibrated

 

@akatar i am too confused now i don't know what is the best solution to get non dimmable LEDs controlled via home center without getting the relay welded because of current inrush they said dimmer 2 works will in loads between 50 watt and 250 watt if the load is bellow than that i should use bypass maybe i have to get dimmer 2 first and check if things works correctly i will proceed with other switches since i have almost 20 switch

[akatar 207]

@mohammad abu hantash well, if it's only switching on/off is what you want

 

use a fibaro relais 2 together with a extra 230vac relais to switch them on/off\

 

the fibaro relais switches the relais and the relais switches the psu of the lights.

 

 

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

@akatar i used before fibaro dual switch 2 relay , and it works but the issue they got welded sometimes it stuck with on or off state on one switch without ability to control it not responding from physical button and software ..

this is known issue i don't know if the extra vac relay will solve the issue have you any experience with it  ?

[akatar 207]

@mohammad abu hantash no i don't. but i guess that the extra ralais will do the job

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

@akatar thanks for your help again , i don't know too much on electricity staff, can you explain what is the type of second relay and is it safe to use it and does i need just one relay with the dual switch 2 ? how can i install it

 

[akatar 207]

@mohammad abu hantash if you don't know anything about electricity, please find someone to do this for you!

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

@akatar sure i will just wanted to tell him what he have to do at least i want to buy the second relay so he can install it, also he does not know much about the automation is it straight forward the second relay installation ?

[akatar 207]

@mohammad abu hantash ofcourse, instead of the light you install the relais, and the light connects to the relais.

 

 

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

Thanks i will try and will back to you .

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by mohammad abu hantash

[mohammad abu hantash 0]

@akatar @petergebruers called my electrician and he said yes he is thinking to install SSR (solid state relay) after the Zwave relay i have two issues here :

 

1- does the SSR safe to install over the ceiling, since my wall box is too small, does they heat up if the circuit is on for long time ? or when doing fast switching ?

2- as i understand double switch need double SSR one for each switch right ? since i have double switch 2 FGS-223 and my plan to get bulk of them i have too many switches for lights.

3- what is the difference between these three things to solve the inrush current as i see lots of trials ? 

  A-  arc suppressor snubber

  B- SSR

  C=Einschalt strombegrenzer ESB1 you can check it from this link

Please login or register to see this link.

 

I can't thank you enough about your help and effort

Edited December 17, 2018 by mohammad abu hantash