Goodbye Fibaro hello OpenHAB

[Piotr Bojko 28]

I am wondering what is a real difference when hub is based on a 300 series chip (Fibaro) vs 500 series chip (like you could add such usb stick to openhab)?

[petergebruers 1,268]

That is a VERY difficult question to answer (*). Many things have an impact on real world performance, like "which devices" and how much traffic and what is the layout of the devices.

 

But, basically, 3 things differentiate it for me.

 

500 series aka "Z-Wave Plus" (though they are not exactly the same)

• 100 kbit on second channel (instead of 9.6 and 40k) but backwards compatible and uses CRC16 (for reliability, probably also because they use different modulation).
• Receiver is more sensitive so has better range. Have you seen my comparison of old Wall Plug versus Roller Shutter 3? So possibly more nodes in direct range.
• On recent firmwares, controllers can report "extended status" per data transmission and this can help with diagnosing issues.

About this extended status..

 

As I said... you do not have to be a coder to run alternative products but it does feel good to be able to modify a product. Here is an example. Bear in mind, the learning curve to get there is steep, but once you get at a certain point it becomes easier.

 

To put things in perspective, finding out how to build/compile and navigate the sources was about 150 hours (and I know the basics of Makefiles, so to speak, I am not a complete beginner).

Writing this addition took me about 2 hours:

 

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I'm not going into the details, that would be a topic hijack, but as you can see it node 11 has a routed connected (repeaters = 1) and the repeater node is ID 4. Communication is as fast as it can get, 40 ms... The nearest router has -65 dBm signal strength and that is excellent. That is realtime info, not some daily stat, it's logged per Z-Wave transaction.

 

This is valuable information. I still think if you see abnormal timings, like "TX time: 500 ms", you may need a Zniffer to diagnose the issue further. But In this case you can say "the light was slow to turn on because the Z-Wave protocol to 500 ms to transmit and confirm the packet" (little white lie... it is a bit more difficult to draw conclusions sometimes, and you still have to get basic onderstanding of Z-Wave)

 

It is interesting to note, neither OpenZWave nor OpenHAB have a decoder for this, but they do have the status as a stream of HEX data.

 

AFAIK the 300 series cannot do that. But I have very little information except that the SDK for series 300 has a much lower version number

 

(*) Edit: it is not difficult to list the different specs, but in the context of this topic the question is more like "... and what is the difference in real life".

Edited March 21, 2019 by petergebruers

[robmac 173]

On 3/19/2019 at 10:11 AM, D-Vine said:

 

Nice to hear and that you share your experience on this.

Question:
Recommended hardware. I know you can do this with a RasberryPi but I saw also it's more recommended to use something like a little a Gigabyte GB-BXBT-2807 or something.

And for me it's important for a external z-wave antenna because my hardware is in a steel 19"rack.
I only see USB z-wave antenna's for this?  

I am using a little fanless i5 box I had spare. Just over 50 nodes and do not expect it to ever be stressed.

 

On the USB it is surprising how good the little coil antenna is but I tried this

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 with a UZB-3 with latest static controller firmware

 

using 

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 as I am in europe. 868 is important so if you try don't buy the first you see on amazon.

 

I got a few more direct links so it does help but I would not say it is vital. You can not tune the crystals so you probably could get more if you could then tune the device to the new antenna but unless you have the kit and knowledge you could also make it worse. I have read the docs in the latest SDK for the 700 SOC and it is a little involved.

 

I also tested with a higher gain and got less direct links so more can be less.

 

In truth, just like HC2, finding the best location is more important than anything else. There is a discussion on openHAB on serial over ip so that you can use a RasberryPi remotely with USB dongle and a virtualized openHAB instance that I am sure will work and would allow more flexibility in placing your zwave controller for best direct links.

 

 

[lasmartuser 2]

If you have not tested hubitat yet i recommend it as well! I am impressed from their support and this little box could make many things!

[D-Vine 65]

.

Edited July 31, 2019 by D-Vine

[alex88 71]

@robmac How had your move to OpenHAB gone?

 

I ask because I am considering whether to:

 

- try to get my system back to "stable" again as is - meaning stable enough that I stop thinking about it

- do another complete rebuild of my system on whatever the latest version the HC2 is on (4.640 currently)

- move to another platform

 

The last option is the least desirable as I have burnt ALL my credits with my wife on this project. Learning a new system is not a good option now, unless it's truly stable in which case I could take the plunge.

The first option is obviously the most desirable, but it only works if Fibaro tech support get into my box and figure out what went wrong when I moved from 4.540 to 4.560 and then back to 4.540. Fingers crossed they can work some magic.

 

 

[robmac 173]

Hi @amilanov

 

Sorry to hear you hit the brick wall again. It is just frustrating when you have it all almost working and then it falls apart.

 

The only downsides I have found with OpenHAB are:

1) There is not a user interface as friendly as Fibaro's interface out of the box. If you consider it friendly. That is also good as with a little effort you can build something better.

2) On zwave everything needs a template. They are easy to add and sort out though.

3) Nothing like the heating panel etc if you are a fan of these things. I was never a fan so not a big issue for me but it is all personal. 

 

Why do I like it more than HC2.

 

It is open, has good interfaces to a lot of technologies that HC2 does not and is very flexible. It is genuinely an ecosystem. You are not locked to zwave and the other integrations that I use are all better than HC2.

 

You have options to use stable releases or all or part of more recent builds of various parts of the system. There are issues but you will find them well documented in the github relating to the part of openHAB so you can research before you start.

 

On the zwave side, I think most of the issues reported are of the users own making but also some things are not yet supported.

 

This year the team have changed to a new continuous integration and build system . This has been disruptive but is starting to stabilize. Largely because of this there is a small backlog of issues but  then they have CI and a nightly build and rigour and processes and quality checks. I do not think HC2  software has anything like this level of rigour and quality?

 

I use a few snapshot(nightly) builds for some components and a milestone core and I have had no  serious issues 

 

Before you decide start here  

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  and post any questions on the forum. Also when you have identified any bindings you might ,want to use just check the forum and  issues in github and you will know if anything is going to be a problem for you if you decide to try.

 

I think the intro to the docs is rather good.

 

Quote

What You Need to Know Before You Start

When home automation just seems to work, it is always the result of hard work. Home automation is fascinating and requires a considerable investment of your time. Here are some key considerations especially for new users. To be successful, you will need to:

• Start slowly and one step at a time
• Be prepared to learn
• Remain flexible in how you want to achieve your goal
• Celebrate all the small successes

Remember, openHAB is just a computer program. The computer will only do what you tell it to do. openHAB can provide many default solutions that are easy to setup. On the flip side, the more you insist that everything should look and work exactly as you want it, the more work you will have to do. openHAB is fully customizable, but doing so will require substantial effort on your part.

 

 

 

The good news is that after you make the effort, a bad release from the vendor is not going to  leave you having to do it all again.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by robmac

[10der 832]

On 3/21/2019 at 10:37 AM, robmac said:

And this is how fast template update should happen thought you can add to the site yourself.

Templates - it’s a pain 

[robmac 173]

5 minutes ago, 10der said:

Templates - it’s a pain 

Yes and I think we could get rid but Chris does not want to admit/make the effort.

 

On the good side of the template it showed up a fake fibaro switch somebody had bought from Amazon. so it is not all bad.

 

Do you have some devices that are not supported? Just request access to this 

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 from Chris and you can add them yourself and they will be supported by the end of the week.

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by robmac

[10der 832]

9 hours ago, robmac said:

On the good side of the template it showed up a fake fibaro switch somebody had bought from Amazon. so it is not all bad.

I can tell you right now, it's a winner.