2 dimmers on 1 lighting

[eureka 9]

Hi,

 

I have a few questions regarding the fibaro dimmer because I'm having issues.

 

Setup

I have a bit of a crazy setup in which I have hallway lights (4 spots) which can be controlled from 3 light switches. 2 of those switches are in a serie, however, the electrician forgot to put the third light switch in the same series, so basically it is in a seperate circuit (sounds confusing so I added a lighting infrastructure picture to this post). Because the switches are not in the same loop, I need to use 2 fibaro dimmers to be able to turn the lights on/off. Also good to know: When I dimmed the lights they started flickering. Hence I added 2 bypasses which helped with that problem.

 

I connected the two dimmers in fibaro homecenter so if 1 dimmer is switched on, the other would also be switched on (so that next time i click any one of them, it will go off)

 

Issues

I'm having a series of issues

1) because i'm using 2 fibaro dimmers, my lighting gets twice the amount of power (because both devices are on and provide power), hence it's hard to dim, also the light seems to go on in 2 stages as one dimmer needs to communicate to the other that it is switched on which takes more time so i see a 'boost' effect in putting on the lights

2) when I put on the lights  or put them off, my led lights start making a buzzing sound for about 2 seconds which then stops. I don't know what is causing it.

 

Questions

Is there a way to put one of the dimmers in some sort of 'slave' mode where it only sends/receives info on whether I pressed the button to on/off but that it does not give of power to the system. Basically to make them work as 1 dimmer instead of 2.

 

Also, does anybody understand what the cause of the buzzing sound can be when putting on/off the lighting (buzzing sound does not get bigger/smaller when i dim the light)

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Edited July 11, 2019 by eureka
changed the picture as it was incorrect

[Sjakie 141]

Hi,

1) because i'm using 2 fibaro dimmers, my lighting gets twice the amount of power >> I don think so.

The power used is what the lamp consumes  not what you give it!

[Barlow 19]

@eureka My recommendation would be as follows:

• Purchase a Fibaro Bypass (FGB-002)
• Disconnect the hallway lights from the output terminal of the second (stand-alone) dimmer.
• Connect the Fibaro Bypass to the second (stand-alone) dimmer and take it through its calibration process.
• Connect the wall switch to the S1 terminal of the second (stand-alone) dimmer
• Setup associations (direct control links) between the dimmers:
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the Home Center via Group 1 association
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the first (live circuit) dimmer via Group 2 association (on/off)
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the first (live circuit) dimmer via Group 3 association (dimming)
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the Home Center via Group 1 association
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the second (stand-alone) dimmer via Group 2 association (on/off)
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the second (stand-alone) dimmer via Group 3 association (dimming)

This way, only one dimmer terminal will provide load control to the hallway lights. The second dimmer will act as a "remote control" to the first dimmer. Both dimmers will mirror their status. The buzzing and boost effect that you've experienced should disappear.

[eureka 9]

9 hours ago, Sjakie said:

Hi,

1) because i'm using 2 fibaro dimmers, my lighting gets twice the amount of power >> I don think so.

The power used is what the lamp consumes  not what you give it!

 

Thanks for your reply. Ok, makes sense. My line of reasoning had to do with the fact that I see my lights coming on in 2 stages. when I press a switch it turns on and a second later the brightness increases instantly to approx twice the brightness. What could be the reason for that?

[eureka 9]

2 hours ago, Barlow said:

@eureka My recommendation would be as follows:

• Purchase a Fibaro Bypass (FGB-002)
• Disconnect the hallway lights from the output terminal of the second (stand-alone) dimmer.
• Connect the Fibaro Bypass to the second (stand-alone) dimmer and take it through its calibration process.
• Connect the wall switch to the S1 terminal of the second (stand-alone) dimmer
• Setup associations (direct control links) between the dimmers:
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the Home Center via Group 1 association
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the first (live circuit) dimmer via Group 2 association (on/off)
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the first (live circuit) dimmer via Group 3 association (dimming)
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the Home Center via Group 1 association
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the second (stand-alone) dimmer via Group 2 association (on/off)
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the second (stand-alone) dimmer via Group 3 association (dimming)

This way, only one dimmer terminal will provide load control to the hallway lights. The second dimmer will act as a "remote control" to the first dimmer. Both dimmers will mirror their status. The buzzing and boost effect that you've experienced should disappear.

 

Thanks for the help. I do have some questions though

 

1) Currently I already have 2 fibaro bypasses in the system which is in the circuit with the hallway lights (so in the circuit between N and the weird symbol). I take it I need to remove 1 of them and leave the other 1 in that circuit? Or do I need to put the bypass between S1 and Sx?

2) what do you mean with output terminal?

 

[Barlow 19]

@eureka I take it that your hallway lights consume <50 watts, in which case you would indeed leave one Fibaro Bypass connected in the system. You only ever need one Fibaro Bypass per Dimmer. PS what you describe as the weird symbol ~ is the output terminal of the Dimmer, controlling the connected lights.

 

Assuming that you have a 3-wire setup available at your second (stand-alone) dimmer you will:

• Connect your Live lead to the L terminal of the dimmer module
• Connect your Neutral line to the N terminal of the dimmer module
• Connect Fibaro Bypass to the N terminal of the dimmer module
• Connect Fibaro Bypass to the ~ Q (Output) terminal of the dimmer module

Once connected in this way, my recommendation is, to first exclude (delete) the Dimmer from trom the Z-Wave network. Then add the Dimmer to the network, which forces calibration. During calibration and thereafter, Fibaro Bypass acts as a dummy load. 

[eureka 9]

6 hours ago, Barlow said:

@eureka I take it that your hallway lights consume <50 watts, in which case you would indeed leave one Fibaro Bypass connected in the system. You only ever need one Fibaro Bypass per Dimmer. PS what you describe as the weird symbol ~ is the output terminal of the Dimmer, controlling the connected lights.

 

Assuming that you have a 3-wire setup available at your second (stand-alone) dimmer you will:

• Connect your Live lead to the L terminal of the dimmer module
• Connect your Neutral line to the N terminal of the dimmer module
• Connect Fibaro Bypass to the N terminal of the dimmer module
• Connect Fibaro Bypass to the ~ Q (Output) terminal of the dimmer module

Once connected in this way, my recommendation is, to first exclude (delete) the Dimmer from trom the Z-Wave network. Then add the Dimmer to the network, which forces calibration. During calibration and thereafter, Fibaro Bypass acts as a dummy load. 

 

Thanks for the replies. I've taken your input to make a new wiring picture. Is my interpretation of what you are saying correct in this picture?

 

also, I probably need to delete and reconnect both dimmers from the network then I guess? Wouldn't a force recalibrate with bypass be enough?

Please login or register to see this attachment.

Edited July 15, 2019 by eureka

[Barlow 19]

@eureka

 

• Remove the connection between the Dimmer A and Dimmer B output terminals (~ Q)
• Connect the first Fibaro Bypass between the Neutral (N) line and Dimmer B output terminal (~ Q)
• Connect a second Fibaro Bypass between the Neutral (N) line and Dimmer A output terminal (~ Q)

A force recalibrate should work. In my case it did not work so I had to remove and re-add the module to the network. But you can try it.

[eureka 9]

@Barlow like this?

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[Barlow 19]

@eureka No not like that. Please take another good look at my instructions. I have added the symbol for the output terminal to avoid any confusion. 

 

• Remove the connection between the Dimmer A output terminal (

  Please login or register to see this image.

  /monthly_2019_07/image.png.c931ff0910e1d63ae803505eade1e501.png" />) and Dimmer B output terminal (

  Please login or register to see this image.

  /monthly_2019_07/image.png.c931ff0910e1d63ae803505eade1e501.png" />)
• Connect the first Fibaro Bypass between the Neutral (N) line and Dimmer B output terminal (

  Please login or register to see this image.

  /monthly_2019_07/image.png.c931ff0910e1d63ae803505eade1e501.png" />)
• Connect a second Fibaro Bypass between the Neutral (N) line and Dimmer A output terminal (

  Please login or register to see this image.

  /monthly_2019_07/image.png.c931ff0910e1d63ae803505eade1e501.png" />)

 

[eureka 9]

ok, so I'm not big in this so it might be that I'm completely misunderstanding. I redraw the whole thing. is this what you are saying?

 

Please login or register to see this attachment.

[Barlow 19]

@eureka Spot on. 

[eureka 9]

On 7/12/2019 at 5:06 PM, Barlow said:

@eureka My recommendation would be as follows:

 

• Setup associations (direct control links) between the dimmers:
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the Home Center via Group 1 association
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the first (live circuit) dimmer via Group 2 association (on/off)
  • Join the second (stand-alone) dimmer to the first (live circuit) dimmer via Group 3 association (dimming)
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the Home Center via Group 1 association
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the second (stand-alone) dimmer via Group 2 association (on/off)
  • Join the first (live circuit) dimmer to the second (stand-alone) dimmer via Group 3 association (dimming)

 

- Should I setup associations as master or slave or both? (the checkmark 'S' and 'M')

- All endpoint 1 I guess?

Edited July 17, 2019 by eureka

[Barlow 19]

@eureka there are single channel and multi channel associations. In this case, single should be fine.

[eureka 9]

12 minutes ago, Barlow said:

@eureka there are single channel and multi channel associations. In this case, single should be fine.

 

It's working! Thx so much for the help!! It's litterally taken me 2 years to get these lights to work properly.

[Barlow 19]

@eureka glad I could help. 

[eureka 9]

16 hours ago, Barlow said:

@eureka glad I could help. 

 

ok not completely there yet. I got some weird things going on.

 

- When I use the stand alone dimmer to put light on it goes to 100% and then dims back to the preset brightness value (if the preset value is less than 100%). Don't know if it is related but in homecenter the standalone dimmer is only on/off so not dimmable. I can't input any other value than 100 or 0.

 

- I still get a buzzing sound from 1 light (there are 4 in the series) when the brightness is dimmed. 

[Barlow 19]

@eureka the bunzing sound which remains from one of the lights is weird. Can you try recalibrating the dimmer for that light group?

 

For the stand-alone dimmer, check if the dimmer has recognized the load as dimmable. As an alternative to using associations, you can (after removing the associations) use device grouping instead. 

[eureka 9]

5 hours ago, Barlow said:

@eureka the bunzing sound which remains from one of the lights is weird. Can you try recalibrating the dimmer for that light group?

 

For the stand-alone dimmer, check if the dimmer has recognized the load as dimmable. As an alternative to using associations, you can (after removing the associations) use device grouping instead. 

 

I think I found the source of the buzzing. It was at the light where I also installed the bypass. One of the wires was a bit loose so probably that was causing the issue.

 

The standalone dimmer indeed sees it as non-dimmable. I got it to work as dimmable load now. One thing I do notice in the fibaro app is that I can change the dimmability of dimmer 1, however, dimmer 2 will not change to the same dimming level (and the other way around). Same goes for on/off, it only works using the light switch, not in app or desktop. So, only when I use the light switch it syncs the light level of the 2 dimmers. Is this expected behaviour?

Edited July 18, 2019 by eureka

[Barlow 19]

@eureka good that you were able to find the source and fix the buzzing and dimming. Yes, associations only allow direct control through S1 and S2 buttons. With a simple scene or device grouping you can get the dimmers to sync via app and desktop as well.