Say to all?

[10der 830]

Hi.

according to releasing HC3 and upcoming closing HC2 project by Fibaro plus having a plans moving to another open source platform II made a decision reduce activity on the forum.

i will stay in some private boxes and periodically check PM (but no more).

 

thanks.

 

O.

[Tony270570 92]

Really bad new, hop you'll change your mind as you are one of the pillar of this community  

[petrho 5]

So sad. So we can't expect any bug fixes or similar?

 

However - thanks a lot for all good stuff!

[Sjakie 135]

@10der,

I respect your decision.

upcoming closing HC2 >>short or long term?  I have no clue.

Please keep in mind that you guys with some more back ground or knowledge are coaching us and make that we can grow and have some fun in Home automation too!

Only for that reason I regret the decision you have made and hope that not to much guys of your caliber will follow and disappear.

What alternative we have? HC2 is running rather good now (some issues still to be solved)

Till now I spent a lot off time in/with HC2 (Even Runner) and thanks to the contribution of you all my house is rather automated.

Off course  when I make this statement I cant forget to mention the father of Event Runner because he spent even much more time in it.

I wish you all the best and thanks for your contribution,

cheers!

[baduxiyang 0]

see you

[D-Vine 64]

On 1/15/2020 at 10:10 PM, 10der said:

Hi.

according to releasing HC3 and upcoming closing HC2 project by Fibaro plus having a plans moving to another open source platform II made a decision reduce activity on the forum.

i will stay in some private boxes and periodically check PM (but no more).

 

thanks.

 

O.

 

Wich open source platform you going to?

I'm checking out openHAB/ Homeassistant and Jeedom but not knowing wich is the best yet....

 

 

[petergebruers 1,261]

4 hours ago, D-Vine said:

I'm checking out openHAB/ Homeassistant and Jeedom but not knowing wich is the best yet....

You will never find out, there aren't enough hours in a day to investigate all the pro's and con's

 

You're forgetting Domoticz, which is the only one having the latest version of OpenZWave (Jeedom/Hass on older and unmaintained version, OpenHAB is not based on OZW at all) - I know because I am an OZW contributor 

 

I ran Jeedom for about 2 hours. Cannot tell anything about it.

I ran OpenHAB for several days and it is probably the most stable of the bunch, it has been around for a while!

Then HASS... Although 5 years old IIRC still "the new kid on the block" I run HASS in production and it is still very much in flux, but it has a very active community, excellent web interface (aka lovelace)

 

None of them beat the HC2 when it comes to Z-Wave support, but that is not necessarily a big problem, because Z-Wave is backwards compatible.

 

If you have "linux background" this may be something for you, if not, I see it this way: you'll invest a lot of time learning new things and if you stay with open source and your solution that will pay back. But you kind of pay upfront to learn new skills and understand a new system... If you later decide it is not for you you will have learned skills you may never need again.

 

I don't know what kind of person you are. What makes you tick? Is it the "Home Automation" aspect? Or do you want to play with new stuff and maybe contribute to the development of open source?

 

EDIT: there are at least 10 other open source home automation solutions, sometimes they are used together. @10der uses 

Please login or register to see this link.

Edited January 17, 2020 by petergebruers

[D-Vine 64]

That's all what i'm doing now to take a sneak peak on other systems.

I have openHAB running with few things on it just for fun and testing. I'ts a higher learning curve and the problem now is that I have a new baby in the house that take more time then I suspect.?

But with this little sneak peak I think hey this should be something nice for fibaro why isn't it there.
 

I like Fibaro a lot and system running fine. But I think Fibaro could step up a bit more to make things easier for the costumer with,  like example some good plugins or some great developers that could make those plugins. The netatmo plugin is ok but Sankotronic version much better those things I aim at. 

Also that the new homecenter app is far from good for almost a year now concerns me. 

 

For the HC3 I liked to hear yes you can switch over, convert LUA scene's without problem en with a few tweaks you are ready to go. But at this point It looks like build everything from scratch,  and all the hard work from great scene developers are useless.

Unless you can tell me something different

 

 

[Piotr Bojko 27]

I am committed to switch to openhab. In fact I am in the middle of migration now. I migrate room by room. Already have few advantages over my hc2 setup.

 

So I wish you best

[cag014 628]

@Piotr Bojko

Could you please share more info, what advantages are?

Might be worth to invest some effort to adopt opnenHub...

[Piotr Bojko 27]

This is only my personal opinion based firmly on my background - I am a software engineer with more than 10 yrs exp in enterprise systems and integration, architect, auditor and a programmer. I know Java, NodeJS and similar tech stacks. Openhab is based on Java and OSGI - this tech is what I know best. HC2 is (in my not best knowledge) based on PHP, CGIs and some CLI tools. As an engineer I would say that technical stack of OH is better suited for the problem (of home automation) and PHP seems to be silly. I could elaborate more on this. As for example, silly hacks in Fibaro - 

 

In terms of extendability OH wins for me in various ways. First it has far more integrations (called bindings) than HC. Chromecast, Neato, Phillips Hue, Tradfi, Roomba, Xiaomi - all is here. In fact Z-Wave & Zigbee are just another bindings, not extinguished much from others. Second OH does propose better abstraction for those integrations so they behave and being controlled all in the same way across the system. Fibaro has native notion of a z-wave devices and virtual devices implemented in old Lua engine - they are not treated in the same abstract way. Second - you have more options to extend OH and thus integrate your things in home with OH. You can write your own binding or configure already existing to "see" your things in your home. Writing is based on Java toolchain - you simply cant have more advanced build system and toolchain as Java has in terms of CI/CD/tests and so on.

 

In terms of maintalability - OH is a free open source software based on Java. You install it by your own on your own hardware and take care of your own. Fibaro HC is hardware + software. You solve problems in OH by your own using logs, your skills in tech and community. You solve problems in HC by Fibaro service desk and this forum. You don't have logs in Fibaro so you don't have anything except "this thing does not work I as want to" notion to solve your problem, so all is assumed about hardware failures, z-wave failures and software failures. I would say that because of extensive logs in OH and its internal tooling (built in diagnostics for z-wave as an example) - your assumptions are fairly limited and this is a strong point. Migrating my things from HC to OH I am struggling with similar problems on both platforms and I find solving them faster and better in OH. But, again - I know this tech.

 

In terms of power. For 180 $ I've bought mini pc with intel j5005 8 gigs ram and 120 ssd nvme disc. This hardware beats hc2 to the ground  . It beats hc3 to the ground. 

 

In terms of value for money - my oh setup is cheaper than hc2, even cheaper than hcl and is more integrated with current things I can buy. Though I don't have support like in Fibaro which I don't use.

 

In terms of having influence on a platform - consider your (our?) influence on a Fibaro platform. OH is open source, you can contribute to it by your own or just chat with its developers, not forums admins.

 

This is my story  and personal opinion.

 

 

[Sankotronic 2,091]

On 1/15/2020 at 10:10 PM, 10der said:

Hi.

according to releasing HC3 and upcoming closing HC2 project by Fibaro plus having a plans moving to another open source platform II made a decision reduce activity on the forum.

i will stay in some private boxes and periodically check PM (but no more).

 

thanks.

 

O.

 

Hi @10der ,

 

Sorry to see you leaving. I will definitely miss your deep knowledge and help and justified sarcasm. Respect! Wish you all the best!

 

I still believe in my UHAS project and will continue work on it even if it will at the end run only on my HC2. 

[jgab 1,954]

On 1/15/2020 at 10:10 PM, 10der said:

Hi.

according to releasing HC3 and upcoming closing HC2 project by Fibaro plus having a plans moving to another open source platform II made a decision reduce activity on the forum.

i will stay in some private boxes and periodically check PM (but no more).

 

thanks.

 

O.

Good luck! I’m sure you will find new places worthy your code!

I’m on the fence myself so maybe we meet again on another platform ?

[10der 830]

On 1/17/2020 at 9:30 AM, D-Vine said:

openHAB/ Homeassistant

It’s hollywar  both ok as for me 

but I am developer and knows good nodejs and python  so I can help you here sorry 

@Sankotronic you best HA developer here. 

@jgab Jan. You my LUA teacher thank you for all and bow!

[petergebruers 1,261]

I bet you all have a somewhat romantic view of open-source, unless you are a contributor or maintainer.

 

Most people look at open source from a users perspective. When I started my journey with OpenZWave I noticed the maintainer could use some help. He complained a few times that he had a much improved version, called "1.6" that was much better than "1.4". He was certainly right and I am going to make a bold claim which I can substatiate but "1.4" gets beaten by HC2 when it comes to Z-Wave support. But for more than 18 months his "dev" branch failed to attract attention and almost nobody was testing. So I offered help. Then he said OK lets do this, let us move "dev" to master and tell the world "time to move on".

 

Ofter a few months I can say... It is both rewarding but it also completely drains me

 

I wanted to write a post about that but luckily someone else with similar experience did that. He says he is a maintainer, that is worse than contributor but still I recognize most of what he says.

 

"What it feels like to be an open- source maintainer"

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

TL;DR

 

"Outside your door stands a line of a few hundred people. They are patiently waiting for you to answer their questions, complaints, pull requests, and feature requests."

 

In case of OpenZWave that  is only about 50 open issues and 10 Pull Requests, but still...

 

A few issues are the same kind of shi* as people have here: unreliable network (the need Zniffer) or unreliable communication and so on... Nobody ever comes to say "thank you". Well that is not true, they often thank you after you have patiently helped them to solve their issues, but nobody ever pats you on your shoulder.

 

I argued that the ratio of contributors versus users is less than 1 in 100 000. Two maintainers told me... yeah...

 

This week I said to myself: sc** everybody, I'm doing something else. Maybe tomorrow I'll have a look at those "PRs".

[10der 830]

Please login or register to see this image.

/monthly_2020_01/42A603E7-73EF-4EE0-8096-1FF9F1DE6991.jpeg.881bc44ef45b0246e9b8652d452cf944.jpeg" />@Sankotronic

[Piotr Bojko 27]

@petergebruers you have said that your words will be as it the problems is seen from the customer / user point of view, yet... you have said emotions of a maintainer

 

From my perspective in this particular case I consider Fibaro support and theirs patches slower than patches and community support from OH, but still, that's me. 

 

From a regular user point of view - OpenHab can be used by a regular user with a strong limitations and thus... I would not recommend  it.

[10der 830]

6 minutes ago, Piotr Bojko said:

 

Btw, a very long  lite want to,ask you: are you working in Fibaro support? Or he’s your full namesake?
btw2, you have Ukrainian surname  

[petergebruers 1,261]

10 minutes ago, Piotr Bojko said:

you have said emotions of a maintainer

I have the emotions of a maintainer because I am a contributor (helping the maintainer)

 

You'll find me on github, for example:

 

Please login or register to see this link.

 

"Fix a possible infinite loop with invalid list configuration data"

 

I also merge config files aka "templates" when users open such requests and I help then clean up their requests.

 

I have an experimental fork to use a ZW700

 

 

[10der 830]

4 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

I have an experimental fork to use a ZW700

Do not talk about this here, Fibaro decide to rent you to develop hc4 on 700 soc  and I am lost the best friend;) 

Edited January 18, 2020 by 10der