Weird temperature readings

[cincura.net 13]

Hi, I have Window/Door Sensor 2 with this settings:

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Which for me is that the sensor will measure the temperature every 480 seconds and if it differs more than 0,1C the value will be sent to the controller (also it will be sent no matter what once every 3600 seconds). But when I look into history, I see this:

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Which to me doesn't make sense. In roughly 25 minutes the temperature went from 21,6 to 22,3, but why there isn't any temperature in between. It's surely more than 0,1 change in between and there's few 480 second intervals in 25 minutes where the measurement should/could happen.

 

Can it be explained?

[petergebruers 1,268]

Here's a graph of 48 hours of data, DS18B20 on FGK-101 versus "Flood Sensor" in my cellar. It is worth noting the Flood Sensor is a slower to respond to temperature changes and we keep using that cellar so there will be the occasional "mixing of air" even though I shielded the sensors. Fort example, you can see a 0.05°C spike between 5/6 00:00 and 04:00 and that was when I went looking for something. I am a bad sleeper  -  Based on this graph I would say noise is less than 0.1 °C peak.

 

[cincura.net 13]

That looks good. I'll try to check my DSs (probably next week) whether I have genuine or not a report back.

[petergebruers 1,268]

51 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

I'll try to check my DSs (probably next week) whether I have genuine or not a report back.

I am indeed curious to find out if that is the case... If it does appear to be genuine then the intriguing conclusion is that your sensor does register those fluctuations. If it is a clone then the more obvious conclusion (though certainly not proven) is "noisy sensor".

[cincura.net 13]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:29 PM, petergebruers said:

I am indeed curious to find out if that is the case... If it does appear to be genuine then the intriguing conclusion is that your sensor does register those fluctuations. If it is a clone then the more obvious conclusion (though certainly not proven) is "noisy sensor".

I took bit more time than I expected, but sure enough the sensor shows as a clone (`Family B1`, in case you're interested). I'll try to get a genuine one and report back.

[cincura.net 13]

OK, even with the genuine probe I'm getting some flaky readings.

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/monthly_2020_06/img.png.0ec56c2d2f5bdad50af79975cc842445.png" />

 

The red ones are again XX,12. It looks like these happen every hour-ish, and I have a periodic report set to 3600s. I also have wake-up interval set to 3600s. Could it be related? I don't know.

 

Looking at the green ones, I see that sometimes (probably) the threshold report (every 8mins I have set testing for threshold, so it aligns with full hour sometimes) kicks in and the temperature is "corrected" right after.

 

Now I'm lost. I can probably disable periodic reports and move on. But now I'm even more intrigued to figure out what's wrong. I have another door sensor that I can try, just in case. But as a start I'll try to first change the periodic report to say 55 minutes and then even disable it.

[petergebruers 1,268]

53 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

I also have wake-up interval set to 3600s. Could it be related? I don't know.

Maybe. I would increase the reporting frequency either by lowering the wake up interval (eg to 10-15 minutes) or lower "Parameter no. 12 Sensitivity to temperature changes" or both, but see description in manual on how interval and p12 interact... I would argue this new sensor is less noisy then the previous one based on your event log. You can lower noise by averaging but you can only do that if you have more data points.

[cincura.net 13]

12 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

Maybe. I would increase the reporting frequency either by lowering the wake up interval (eg to 10-15 minutes) or lower "Parameter no. 12 Sensitivity to temperature changes" or both, but see description in manual on how interval and p12 interact... I would argue this new sensor is less noisy then the previous one based on your event log. You can lower noise by averaging but you can only do that if you have more data points.

Parameter 12 is Value of ON command frame sent to 2nd association group. You meant parameter 52?

 

The threshold (p51) at the moment is 0,1C, thus I can't go any lower.

 

I'm not sure I follow how lowering the wake up interval will increase the reporting frequency. As far as I understand, the wake up interval is for the device to wake and receive new configuration (hence turns on radio, hence more mA(h) consumed). But it's independent from threshold measurements where the report is sent only if the threshold value is reached (hence saving mA(h)) and so these measurement can happen more often. And same with periodic reports (but the report is always sent), unrelated to wake up interval.

Edited June 4, 2020 by cincura.net

[petergebruers 1,268]

4 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

Parameter 12 is Value of ON command frame sent to 2nd association group. You meant parameter 52?

 

The threshold (p51) at the moment is 0,1C, thus I can't go any lower.

You seem to be looking at the manual of the D/W Sensor 2, with the builtin temp sensor. Here is the manual of the older model with DS18B20

 

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8 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

I'm not sure I follow how lowering the wake up interval will increase the reporting frequency. As far as I understand, the wake up interval is for the device to wake and receive new configuration (hence turns on radio, hence more mA(h) consumed).

Yes but most devices will also send latest sensor data when they wake up. Theoretically the DS18B20 can be in 12 bit mode and send smaller change than 0.1 °C, I think it has 0.06 resolution (from the top of my head)

 

9 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

And same with periodic reports (but the report is always sent), unrelated to wake up interval.

My FGK-101s do not have period reporting and I guess yours do not have that either. Are you looking at a D/W Sensor 2?

[cincura.net 13]

No, I'm looking at correct manual, but I have 3.2 firmware, you're talking about 2.5.

[petergebruers 1,268]

Just now, cincura.net said:

No, I'm looking at correct manual, but I have 3.2 firmware, you're talking about 2.5.

Exactly my point indeed... I have never seen a 3.2 on a DW Sensor 1... IMHO version 3 means it is a DW 2.

 

I cannot prove that but if you go to 

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 you won't find D/W 1, only DW Sensor 2 and that one starts with fw 3.2. AFAIK the "3" in the number tells you it is a Z-Wave Plus sensor (ZW5 chip) and the 2.X devices cannot be upgraded tot 3.X because it is different hardware (ZW3 chip).

[cincura.net 13]

3 minutes ago, petergebruers said:

Exactly my point indeed... I have never seen a 3.2 on a DW Sensor 1... IMHO version 3 means it is a DW 2.

 

I cannot prove that but if you go to 

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 you won't find D/W 1, only DW Sensor 2 and that one starts with fw 3.2. AFAIK the "3" in the number tells you it is a Z-Wave Plus sensor (ZW5 chip) and the 2.X devices cannot be upgraded tot 3.X because it is different hardware (ZW3 chip).

 

This is what HC3 tells me:

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The manual is not linked from the main page, but it's accessible

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. And in manual I see "Z-Wave+ (firmware 3.2 or higher)", so it looks like Fibaro produced Z-Wave+ versions of this device and I have it.

[petergebruers 1,268]

8 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

And in manual I see "Z-Wave+ (firmware 3.2 or higher)", so it looks like Fibaro produced Z-Wave+ versions of this device and I have it.

Aha! I have learned something new today

 

Then in that case your temperature jumps may have something to do with that 3.2 firmware, because the DW 2 running on 3.2 shows those "jumps" at regular intervals too.

 

Interesting case indeed!

 

So the bad news is - we don't have identical test setup. You don't own a "Universal Binary Sensor" by any chance? Or FGK-101 with fw 2.x?

[cincura.net 13]

1 hour ago, petergebruers said:

So the bad news is - we don't have identical test setup. You don't own a "Universal Binary Sensor" by any chance? Or FGK-101 with fw 2.x?

I have one D/W v1 sensor, but I have to check what FW it has. Will do later today.

 

I can get my hands on Smart Implant and use DS with it, but for the permanent install it would have to figure out power. ? The D/W is convenient because it's battery powered.

[cincura.net 13]

BTW it looks like the weird temperature readings are from wake-up (still 3600). The periodic reports are since 8-ish on 58 minutes and I don't see anything wrong there around this interval.

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[petergebruers 1,268]

14 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

would have to figure out power. ?

Ah yes, power consumption of UBS is too high to run on batteries.

 

9 minutes ago, cincura.net said:

BTW it looks like the weird temperature readings are from wake-up (still 3600).

I agree, that looks like a pattern!

[cincura.net 13]

OK, I was able to find D/W with FW 2.1 and that one works without the glitches in measurements. Good.

 

Now I'm facing dilemma.

 

1. Disable wake up on D/W with FW 3.2 and it should be fine.

2. Somewhat find and buy/exchange/steal unused D/W with FW 2.x.

3. Figure out power and use Smart Implant (I hope that one doesn't have the glitches, else it would be effort wasted).

4. Make my own using Z-Uno.

 

 

[petergebruers 1,268]

Thanks! That was an interesting journey, at least it was for me. I hope you enjoyed that somewhat too - and thanks for all your time spent on this!

 

On 6/5/2020 at 7:04 AM, cincura.net said:

1. Disable wake up on D/W with FW 3.2 and it should be fine.

I was going to suggest that, I think it may work. I checked, the manual says "Setting wake up interval to 0 disables sending Wake up notification frame automatically. ". The only disadvantage of setting it to 0 is you have to press the button to change parameters. But since you've established that the wake up interval is the main contributor to this problem, I guess that is OK, no need to experiment with parameters anymore

 

On 6/5/2020 at 7:04 AM, cincura.net said:

2. Somewhat find and buy/exchange/steal unused D/W with FW 2.x.

Hehehe I am holding onto mine because of its external DS18B20 capability

 

On 6/5/2020 at 7:04 AM, cincura.net said:

3. Figure out power and use Smart Implant (I hope that one doesn't have the glitches, else it would be effort wasted).

I honestly don't know but the Smart Implant is based on a much more recent SDK and is totally different. I haven't seen any reports about glitches but then again almost nobody noticed this problem on the D/W 2 and now on D/W 1 with fw 3.2. In fact, I only count 3 or four people and that's including you and me

 

On 6/5/2020 at 7:04 AM, cincura.net said:

4. Make my own using Z-Uno.

If you enjoy tinkering then sure that is an option, I own 3 Z-Uno myself, I may be biased. There is maybe one small thing to know, Z-Wave.me is working on a ZW700 (32 bit ARM. Instead of the now ageing 8-bit 8051 core ZW500) variant... PoltoS claims ETA is august 2020. Watch the forum... 

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[LBH 5]

Hello there,

 

went over all this process on my own just to find out the solution is on forum for long time already, my bad

 

Fibaro sensor 1, with fw 3.2, with external temp sensor

Glitches in temp reading, exactly in intervals of wake-up, looks like when some parameters are changed on sensor, it somehow memorizes actual temp and on each wake up reports this temperature  Proven over few days when I was playing with wakeup setting of device...

 

In my case, I had the reporting threshold set to 0.5 °C, so in the red circle I had absolutely no idea what the temperature could be. Then I changed reporting temperature to periodical updates each 5 minutes, so since that time nice envelope is created where real temperature can be seen and as well the glitches when device woke up.

 

So is there some firmware fix coming for this device or we end up here with 0 wakeup and manual triggering of device when some changes are required?

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