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Make smoke alarm smart


Jeroen_
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Hi There,

 

I would like to add my existing smoke alarm to my smart home. The situation is that we have a smoke detector on each floor (3 in total) and these are all powered by 230V AC. Each unit has a battery back-up. The units are also connected with an extra wire which is used to trigger the alarm in the other units when 1 unit detects smoke. The current on the wire is normally 0V DC, but when the detector is triggered there is a 10V DC current. I would like to connect a smart implant which triggers my HA system in case of smoke (potentially fire). For example, to open all the blinds immediately.

 

I have a smart implant and a 12V power supply, but I'm not sure how to connect the sensor. Is it as simple as connecting the 12V from the power supply to P, the ground from the power supply to GND and the wire from the smoke detector to in1 or in2? Can the smart implant give me feedback about the measured DC current on the in1 or in 2 port? For me, the manual is not clear about my situation.

 

Thanks,

Jeroen

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Hello

That with the smoke detectors and the Smart Implant is not as easy as it seems.
1. Are the smoke detectors connected to a fire alarm system?
2. What type of smoke alarm do you have?
3. Do you have a circuit diagram or documents from the smoke detectors?
4. Who should report, individually or in groups?
In principle, it could work if you build a relay in between.
But in order to judge whether this is necessary, one would have to have a circuit diagram or a precise description.

Greetings from the neighboring country
Frank

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  • Hi Frank,

     

    Thanks for your reply.

     

    They are standalone units and not connected to any alarm. It is the EI146, see attached manual and picture below. The IC wire is to trigger the other smoke detectors and my goal is to use the signal to set a global variable in the controller and maybe make a direct association with the shutters. In case of fire they should open immediately. I  have measured the IC wire and it is a 10V signal. Hopefully it is as easy as I hope it is.

     

     

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    /monthly_2020_07/afbeelding.png.884134ed820982f42f0ca4fd26dbee9e.png" />

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    @Jeroen_ The answer is easy .. No way. The connection is proprietary, it works between IC and N. So you are moving on the power part!
    If you can afford it, you have to replace the detector socket (I think it will be enough for only one detector).
    Take a look here:

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    This socket has a relay module with NO / NC contact. Here you then connect the SmartImplant input.

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    As @Martin_N says, you shouldn't connect directly to the mains smoke alarm.  But: you can use a relay.  The relay is simply a 230V rated dry contact that activates when 9V is present on the input coil. 

     

    For example I have 230V LifeSaver smoke alarms (Australian brand), these are interconnected with a 9V trigger line just like yours.  They also make a relay unit: 

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      This has an 8 second delay built in to avoid false alarms. 

     

    If local regulations allow, you could install your own relay, where the 9V coil is connected between IC and N (note for safety you should add a fuse too). You can then use the dry contact output just as you would a wall switch (so you don't have to use a Smart Implant, could use a spare switch input on an existing Smart Switch for example). 

     

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  • Thanks @Martin_N and @Tim__ for the input you both gave me. I was hoping it would be easier, but I want to implement it anyway. I think I will order a EI128R to add to my setup. Although it is not very clear in the documentation, if I'm correct the relay output signal is 230V AC. Or is it 9VDC? I still do not have a clue how to connect the smartimplant to the EI128R. If you can help met with this that would be great!

     

     

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    @Jeroen_

     

     

    It's simple.
    Smart Implant (Gnd) - (Com) EI128R
    Smart Implant (IN1) - (NO) EI128R
    Connect it according to picture 1b!

    Be careful, by connecting according to 1a, apply the force voltage of the phase directly to the contacts, which SmartImplant will not survive (and if you are not careful, neither will you!)

    eM.

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    Regarding your question on the output voltage of the relay: there is none as such. A relay is an electromechanical switch, or "dry contact". If it is rated at 230v, then that is the highest voltage it is designed to switch.  Youll be using it to switch the voltage of the smart implant e.g. 12v. I suggest reading up on relays, they are a useful piece of kit, especially for isolating voltages. And, please be careful around 230v, get an electrician if required.

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  • @Tim__ I'm an idiot. I knew that because I used a relay for control of the heating system. I was thinking too difficult. Thanks very much!!

     

     

    @Martin_NThanks, with the remark Tim made it is immediately clear to me.

    Edited by Jeroen_
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  • @Tim__, @Martin_N

     

    Just an update, I got everything working. Thanks for the help. See attached pictures below. If I hit the test button the shutters open immediately. Both NC and NO work in my HC2 and I wired them both.

     

    It was unfortunately not a smooth process. I got it working with a little trial and error and when installing I was too lazy to take the power of. Of course, I made the mistake to touch the L with the IC wire and because of this the IC part in all 3 smoke detectors and the relay were broken. Had to buy new once for €140,- ? ? ?

     

    The smart implant did survive my mistake ?

     

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    /monthly_2020_08/afbeelding.png.0aa30bc7f857e35a0043461cc2289ede.png" />

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    Edited by Jeroen_
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    @Jeroen_

    Good work. In our jargon it is called: glued like a swallow's nest :)

    Often such solutions have been functional for many years. Careful for insulting el. current.
    Let it serve to satisfaction.

    eM.

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    3 hours ago, Jeroen_ said:

    I got it working with a little trial and error and when installing I was too lazy to take the power of. Of course, I made the mistake to touch the L with the IC wire and because of this the IC part in all 3 smoke detectors and the relay were broken. Had to buy new once for €140,-

    Expensive lessons learned.?

    Gladly everthing is working now. ?

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    6 hours ago, Jeroen_ said:

    when installing I was too lazy to take the power of

    Well I'm glad you were still alive to make that post!

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    Hi,

     

    I have a similar issue, but my smoke alarms are wireless interconnected and powered by 9v + 3x1,5v AA batteries. I manage to install Smart Implant onto one of the smoke alarms. When pushing the test-button, it triggers the device in home center nicely. But the problem appears when connecting the other alarms together. Activating one of them doesnt trigger my device via the unit that i installed the implant. My alarms are exactly the same as these: 

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    Anyone with any idea why it doesnt work?

    Edited by vuninho
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    On 4/22/2021 at 3:29 PM, vuninho said:

    Hi,

     

    I have a similar issue, but my smoke alarms are wireless interconnected and powered by 9v + 3x1,5v AA batteries. I manage to install Smart Implant onto one of the smoke alarms. When pushing the test-button, it triggers the device in home center nicely. But the problem appears when connecting the other alarms together. Activating one of them doesnt trigger my device via the unit that i installed the implant. My alarms are exactly the same as these: 

    Please login or register to see this link.

    Anyone with any idea why it doesnt work?

     

    Solved it. Found out where the other interconnected pin was.

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    Hi guys, I am a Fibaro newbie.  I've managed to connect my Smart Implant to the NO relay outputs from a smoke alarm,   I am just struggling to set it up in HC3 to get an alarm signal.  Does anybody have any suggestions as to how I can learn to set this up?

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