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Two associations, same switch, strange behaviour





I have 2 pieces of The Button (FGPB-101 v3.2) (called A and B) and 1 piece of Single Switch (FGS-213 v3.3) (called C). All added to the same Fibaro HC2.

For both of the buttons, I have added a single association to the single switch, so that a momentary push of on of the buttons should toggle the switch on or off.


This works fine, however this happens:

1. I use button A with one push to toggle switch C -> OK

2. I then use button B, but need to first push the button once, wait 2 seconds, then push same button again to make switch C toggle.

3. If I go back to button A, I then also need to push this twice with 2 seconds in between .


Is there something I don't understand when it comes to associations?


And yes, I could use a scene, but want this to function when HC2 is offline.


Anyone who has experienced this?




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It is a "design flaw" of the firmware of the sending device (the "button" in your case) or or "design flaw" of the Z-Wave Association concept in general. I can explain the technical details if you want but here is the gist of it. Z-Wave uses "on" and "off" commands but does not have a "toggle" command to send. So each "button" in your case assumes the last state of the receiving device  was X (being either "on" or "off"). When you click it, it sends the opposite of X. In your case In "Step 1" you click button 1, it sends ON. But at Step 2, button 2 does not know the correct state of your relay. When you click button2 it also sends "ON". What it really should do is "ask the target device if it is on or off, then decide what to send". Some devices do this, some don't. 


How to deal with this? I see a few options, maybe there are more ... I am not a big fan of associations myself, I may be biased.

  • Lobby to get Fibaro to support "GET before SET" but I think that would require extra parameters and a re-certification of the firmware which is expensive. You can try but changes are slim and it will take 2 years.
  • Learn to live with it. Personally, I cannot get used to this kind of behavior (of the associations) but I don't  expect anyone to be like me.
  • Use Scenes. That is what I do. In my case, the reliability of my Home Center is good enough to do that, I do not have the requirement "must work without Homecenter"
  • Try if you can get used to this workaround. Set "Parameter 10. Key Pressed 1 time" to always send ON instead of the default (alternate ON and OFF) and set "Parameter  12. Key Pressed 2 times" to always send OFF instead of the default (send ON ) . This will make the behavior of the "panic buttons"consistent, a click turns on the relay and a double click turns off the relay. Personally, I do not like this workaround because it is not consistent with other devices, you expect click to toggle and double click to make dimmers go to full brightness. Some people give me flak for posting workarounds ("I do not want workarounds, I should just work"), some people give me flak if I don't post them  ("I wish you had told me some kind of workaround existed"). The manual does not mention a configurable "HELD" option, if it existed I would use that turn off the load.

Note that with 2 buttons, you actually have three associations, the controller is also a controlling (and a controlled) device, which complicates matters. Even with only one panic button, if you use the HC to toggle your relay, you also would have to click twice...

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